Pico 4: how to set it up for DCS?

[Qcumber]

3 hours ago, MIghtymoo said:

I have just activated Fixed Foveated rendering in OXRTK (performance/balanced) and it works very well with Pico 4, so I will probably just keep it this way.

Before QVFR came along I thought OXRTK FFR did a good job. You probably will not notice any difference if you are almost maxed out at 72fps. It might also be worth playing with the pre-sets in the user config file. That's where I found the most benefits. 

 

3 hours ago, MIghtymoo said:

There is no magic settings and is just a carefull balance of in-game settings and settings in VD, SteamVR and OXRTK.

I agree with that completely. I have it set so I get good gameplay in most of things I run. For more challenging situations I need to dial back the settings or use a rift s instead. 

[dock999]

On 8/13/2023 at 8:29 PM, Qcumber said:

I tried running without OXRTK last night as I now feel I don't really need it except for colour/contrast control. My gut feeling is that it runs a bit better without OXRTK but this is purely subjective. I haven't done any proper benchmarks yet but that does make sense. I'll try to do some later today. I did post a simple fps comparison earlier in this thread and got 72fps with QVFR enabled versus 58 fps without. 109 on the Normandy 2 map flying low over the same town. I also tried FFR from OXRTK and this gave about 62 fps over the same town (quality-balanced).

 

 

Have been following up on this interesting topic for a while and just try to clarify 2 questions.

1) How do you run the OXRTK ( +-necksafer ) in DCS VR with Pico 4?  I have failed both Steam VR and VD tray ( Option of Launch game ) methods, I noticed that was because the running times of both methods were not OpenXR.     I have OpenComposite as well.

2) what is QVFR?

Many thanks in advance.

[mrsylvestre]

2 hours ago, dock999 said:

2) what is QVFR?

See here for a detailed technical explanation of Quad View Foveated Rendering : What is Quad Views Rendering?

TL/DR, it combines a low resolution rendering of the wider field of view for each eye with an higher resolution rendering of just the fraction of the field of view you are focussing on (also for each eye, so 2 + 2 images are rendered in total, hence "quad views"). By rendering your peripheral vision at lower resolution while keeping the focussed vision high-res, it saves on the number of pixels that have to be pushed through the rendering pipeline, resulting in a lower GPU load and thus potentially more FPS (if not CPU limited) with little or negligible impact on perceived image quality if done right, as in MBucchia's / ED implementation.

It was primarily designed for headsets with eye tracking hardware (that know which part of the FOV you are focussing on) but works surprisingly well with headsets without eye tracking but with a relatively large FOV and sweet spot like the Pico 4. For these headsets, it just assumes that you are focussing on the center of the image, which is most often the case and quite natural.

You can download QVFR here : MBucchia's Quad-View-Foveated on github. If default settings don't work, be sure to read the instructions regarding the creation of a user-specified config file. In particular, for the Pico 4 turbo mode should be set to off.

[Qcumber]

4 hours ago, dock999 said:

1) How do you run the OXRTK ( +-necksafer ) in DCS VR with Pico 4?  I have failed both Steam VR and VD tray ( Option of Launch game ) methods, I noticed that was because the running times of both methods were not OpenXR.     I have OpenComposite as well.

If you run the current version of DCS MT (stable or beta) then it should run open xr by default. If you run the old ST version this will default to oen VR so won't run OXRTK. You don't need OpenComposite so can remove this unless you need it for another app. OXRTK should open automatically if is enabled. The interface can be accessed by Ctrl f2 by default. If you can't access this in game check the openxr layers in steam VR settings to make sure it's enabled. 

I can't get xrnecksafer to work. It crashes DCS on mission launch. I use vrnecksafer instead. I have no idea why this works as I thought this was for open VR only. 

[dock999]

2 hours ago, mrsylvestre said:

See here for a detailed technical explanation of Quad View Foveated Rendering : What is Quad Views Rendering?

TL/DR, it combines a low resolution rendering of the wider field of view for each eye with an higher resolution rendering of just the fraction of the field of view you are focussing on (also for each eye, so 2 + 2 images are rendered in total, hence "quad views"). By rendering your peripheral vision at lower resolution while keeping the focussed vision high-res, it saves on the number of pixels that have to be pushed through the rendering pipeline, resulting in a lower GPU load and thus potentially more FPS (if not CPU limited) with little or negligible impact on perceived image quality if done right, as in MBucchia's / ED implementation.

It was primarily designed for headsets with eye tracking hardware (that know which part of the FOV you are focussing on) but works surprisingly well with headsets without eye tracking but with a relatively large FOV and sweet spot like the Pico 4. For these headsets, it just assumes that you are focussing on the center of the image, which is most often the case and quite natural.

You can download QVFR here : MBucchia's Quad-View-Foveated on github. If default settings don't work, be sure to read the instructions regarding the creation of a user-specified config file. In particular, for the Pico 4 turbo mode should be set to off.

Great in detail, many thanks .  It sounds the VR process will need OpenXR running time to get it to work.

[dock999]

1 hour ago, Qcumber said:

If you run the current version of DCS MT (stable or beta) then it should run open xr by default. If you run the old ST version this will default to oen VR so won't run OXRTK. You don't need OpenComposite so can remove this unless you need it for another app. OXRTK should open automatically if is enabled. The interface can be accessed by Ctrl f2 by default. If you can't access this in game check the openxr layers in steam VR settings to make sure it's enabled. 

I can't get xrnecksafer to work. It crashes DCS on mission launch. I use vrnecksafer instead. I have no idea why this works as I thought this was for open VR only. 

Have just tried the suggestions but the results are not ideal.  

Current  Beta MT:   can see the toolkit works but DCS crashes.

Current Beta ST:  toolkit nonfunctional. DCS runs normally

Current stable ST: toolkit nonfunctional. Dcs runs normally.

The default Running-time is set to Steam VR/openxr by the OpenComposite switcher . It looks like Picco 4 serves people differently.

 

[Qcumber]

Try the usual stuff of deleting shader folders and doing a slow repair. Disable any mods. Make sure xrnecksafer is disabled in steam VR openxr layers, even if you have not started the app, otherwise DCS will crash. 

[dock999]

I notice DCS OpenBeta  MT really does not go well with SteamVR which is through OpenXR/steamVR. However, DCS OpenBeta ST and DCS stable version can run SteamVR reasonably well. But if you look at the DCS log, both of them actually through OpenVR which are Oculus Quest 2 and OculusRift respectively (in my Pico 4 case ) . This is why the toolkit +- necksafer are non-functional. This is the reason that  I wonder why some of you guys can use the toolkit in SteamVR.

[Qcumber]

9 hours ago, dock999 said:

I notice DCS OpenBeta  MT really does not go well with SteamVR which is through OpenXR/steamVR

Could you expand on this? Some people have found that their experience with MT is not as smooth as with ST. There are several discussion threads in the MT bug section that might be worth looking at to see if this can help with your issue. 

[mrsylvestre]

18 hours ago, dock999 said:

 

The default Running-time is set to Steam VR/openxr by the OpenComposite switcher . It looks like Picco 4 serves people differently.

 

I am curious about the references to OpenComposite and the OpenComposite switcher. The Pico 4 is *not* natively OpenXR compatible for PCVR (it might be for the standalone Pico games running directly on the Pico 4 android OS). For PCVR, it is by essence a SteamVR headset. My understanding is that the main purpose of OpenComposite is to bypass SteamVR for headsets with native support for OpenXR. Perhaps the persistence of OpenComposite in parallel to SteamVR's OpenXR layer is the reason for issues when you attempt to run DCS-MT.  FWIW, the only two VR-related softwares pieces I first installed on my PC were SteamVR and Virtual Desktop. No OpenComposite, no WMR, or other runtimes, API's etc. DCS-MT then flawlessly runs by default with the OpenXR API through SteamVR. I then added the OXRTK and QVFR by MBucchia with no issues.

I once messed with DLL's and a key in the registry to force use of the Oculus API in DCS but it broke everything else. Lesson learned : uninstall of all VR-related software tools and clean reinstall of the list above (starting with SteamVR, after getting rid of all leftovers of past "experiments") + cleanup and repair of DCS for good measure.

[Qcumber]

Pico 4 runs through steam VR. The game dictates the runtime. Open composite allows an open VR game (e g. IL-2 and pre- March 2023 DCS beta) to utilize openxr toolkit. For oculus headsets open composite also negates native open VR games opening through steam VR. The Pico 4 will run through steam VR with VD, although it can be forced to run through oculus runtime. With streaming assistant the only option is steam VR. 

[dock999]

19 hours ago, mrsylvestre said:

I am curious about the references to OpenComposite and the OpenComposite switcher. The Pico 4 is *not* natively OpenXR compatible for PCVR (it might be for the standalone Pico games running directly on the Pico 4 android OS). For PCVR, it is by essence a SteamVR headset. My understanding is that the main purpose of OpenComposite is to bypass SteamVR for headsets with native support for OpenXR. Perhaps the persistence of OpenComposite in parallel to SteamVR's OpenXR layer is the reason for issues when you attempt to run DCS-MT.  FWIW, the only two VR-related softwares pieces I first installed on my PC were SteamVR and Virtual Desktop. No OpenComposite, no WMR, or other runtimes, API's etc. DCS-MT then flawlessly runs by default with the OpenXR API through SteamVR. I then added the OXRTK and QVFR by MBucchia with no issues.

I once messed with DLL's and a key in the registry to force use of the Oculus API in DCS but it broke everything else. Lesson learned : uninstall of all VR-related software tools and clean reinstall of the list above (starting with SteamVR, after getting rid of all leftovers of past "experiments") + cleanup and repair of DCS for good measure.

I have 3 headsets which are HP G2, Pico 4, and Crystal and I used them to run DCS VR and MSFS VR . I would like to use OpenXR Toolkit and Necksafer when I run DCS VR and MSFS VR. I am aware that OpenComposite is not required to run DCS VR and MDFS VR. However, the switcher let me choose to go Non Steam pathway to launch VR, and the OPXRTK and Necksafer have no issue in this pathway . So  I have no problem of using these 2 programs in G2 and Crystal when the switcher is set to OpenComposite.  While the switcher is set to SteamVR , OpXRTK and Necksafer become nonfunctional in all 3 headsets .  This is the reason why I would like to avoid going through SteamVR.  However, Pico 4 is such a unique headset and very pleasant to wear but Pico 4  is a SteamVR(?only)- headset . When I saw someone who could run OPXRTK +- necksafer in the SteamVR environment, I became really curious.

[dock999]

22 hours ago, Qcumber said:

Could you expand on this? Some people have found that their experience with MT is not as smooth as with ST. There are several discussion threads in the MT bug section that might be worth looking at to see if this can help with your issue. 

The main problem is DCS crash.  The crash only happened during the Open beta MT went through SteamVR with or without necksafer.  This is the reason that I always prefer to go through the Non-SteamVR pathway. However, the Pico 4 would not allow to use OpenXR.

Edited August 23, 2023 by dock999

[59th_Wittman]

Hello Guys!

Is it possible manage the Pico 4 VR sleep time? 

When I use the VR in DCS via Virtual Desktop, sometimes I take off the VR, and it going to sleep immediately. When I put on again,, VR can't to load the DCS.

How to switch off the sleep mode?

Thanks in advance!

 

Edited August 24, 2023 by 59th_Wittman

[Hammer3246]

5 minutes ago, 59th_Wittman said:

Hello Guys!

Is it possible manage the Pico 4 VR sleep time? 

When I use the VR in DCS via Virtual Desktop, sometimes I take off the VR, and it going to sleep immediately. When I put on again,, VR can't to load the DCS.

How to switch off the sleep mode?

Thanks in advance!

 

 

I just put some black tape over the top sensor inside the mask between the lenses.

[59th_Wittman]

 It"s okay, I will try. But any option? 

[Hammer3246]

1 hour ago, 59th_Wittman said:

 It"s okay, I will try. But any option? 

That, I don't know.

[59th_Wittman]

18 hours ago, Hammer3246 said:

I just put some black tape over the top sensor inside the mask between the lenses.

And it's working! Thanks! 

[Qcumber]

Is anyone noticing a performance boost since the last update with VD and Pico 4? It seems to be running a bit better. I'm not sure if it's the update or something I have changed. 

[mrsylvestre]

On 8/22/2023 at 1:56 PM, Qcumber said:

 Open composite allows an open VR game (e g. IL-2 and pre- March 2023 DCS beta) to utilize openxr toolkit. For oculus headsets open composite also negates native open VR games opening through steam VR.

Thank you, I learned something today.

20 minutes ago, Qcumber said:

Is anyone noticing a performance boost since the last update with VD and Pico 4? It seems to be running a bit better. I'm not sure if it's the update or something I have changed. 

By last update, you mean the recently released beta (1.28.1)? It certainly works well in my case. I only tested with MSFS2020, however, and I had opted out of the MSFS beta the day before, so it is not a perfect comparison. An added benefit of 1.28.1 to me is that Godin (dev) managed to fix the issues with the HEVC codec on AMD GPUs. Compared to x.264, I can reduce bitrate by ~30% in x.265 while still getting better image quality for similar performance (reduced bitrate lowers latency but encoding/decoding is a tad slower so in the end latency is about the same).

[Qcumber]

On 8/23/2023 at 6:08 AM, dock999 said:

I have 3 headsets which are HP G2, Pico 4, and Crystal and I used them to run DCS VR and MSFS VR . I would like to use OpenXR Toolkit and Necksafer when I run DCS VR and MSFS VR. I am aware that OpenComposite is not required to run DCS VR and MDFS VR. However, the switcher let me choose to go Non Steam pathway to launch VR, and the OPXRTK and Necksafer have no issue in this pathway . So  I have no problem of using these 2 programs in G2 and Crystal when the switcher is set to OpenComposite.  While the switcher is set to SteamVR , OpXRTK and Necksafer become nonfunctional in all 3 headsets .  This is the reason why I would like to avoid going through SteamVR.  However, Pico 4 is such a unique headset and very pleasant to wear but Pico 4  is a SteamVR(?only)- headset . When I saw someone who could run OPXRTK +- necksafer in the SteamVR environment, I became really curious.

I have a rift s and Pico 4. Running two headsets on the same PC can be a challenge. For some reason Pico 4 running through steam VR will not run xrnecksafer but rift s will. I sometimes need to clear the DCS shader folders when switching between headsets and open XR settings. There appears to be an issue with Pico 4, steam VR and some open xr apps. I can run OXRTK and QVFR but xrnecksafer crashes DCS when I try to launch a mission. 

[Qcumber]

8 minutes ago, mrsylvestre said:

By last update, you mean the recently released beta (1.28.1)?

Actually I meant the DCS update, but you are correct, I have updated VD too. Maybe VD or DCS or a combination!?

72 Hz is great but I am still having problems if I try to use 90 hz and SSW. Too much latency and ghosting. I hope they can improve this soon. 

[mrsylvestre]

Yes, 72 Hz is currently the sweet spot too for my system. I prefer it to 90 Hz + SSW, mostly because of ghosting in dogfights and when looking sideways.

After 4 months, I am rather pleased with the Pico 4 in DCS and MSFS but it has for been quite a ride / learning curve. Image quality is OK even though not comparable to what can be obtained in 2D but, to me, the immersion and improved situation awareness is worth it, there is no turning back. I doubt that VD can squeeze that much more performance for these titles. Now if AMD or NVidia could get us 4090+ performance at ~800€ or less by say, 2025...   In the meantime, I fire up HL:Alyx now and then to remind me what less demanding  games that have been fully optimized for VR from their inception can do on the Pico 4. But I am not complaining about what I have today.

[Qcumber]

30 minutes ago, mrsylvestre said:

Now if AMD or NVidia could get us 4090+ performance at ~800€ or less by say, 2025...

Yes. The Pico 4 is "situationally" perfect. The cockpit resolution is 1440p+ quality and I can get 72 fps at Godlike with about 60-70% GPU use in simple scenarios. However, complex setups are a lot more demanding and push my GPU way too far. I'm waiting for the rtx 6070 for perfection, but I might be optimistic. Or perhaps DLSS/Vulkan will be the answer!!?

[2circle]

Question for the group…I just received my Pico 4 and live in the US.  I can’t purchase the VD app in the Pico headset and can’t find it in the App Store.  Does anyone have a workaround for those of us that would like to stream DCS from PC onto the Pico 4?  Thanks in advance!