GGTharos Posted January 20, 2009 Posted January 20, 2009 Back on track guys. Thanks. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
TheMoose Posted January 21, 2009 Posted January 21, 2009 Hi all, I'm planning to purchase this game pretty soon. Some question: There are no radar guided missiles in the KA50 - are there radar guided SAMs and can I avoid them somehow because I have no radar warning receiver? What time period is covered with this sim? Not sure about all the radar warning stuff, heck the thread was a good read though. Myself not sure if it’s because I have radio assist enable (probably), but I do receive vocal warnings; missile launch 12 o’clock high etc… You can always use that I guess if you want to receive warnings… __________________ Antec 900 gaming tower, PSU: Corsair 750W, Q6600, Asus P5K, 8Gig Mushkin, Nvidia eVGA 280 GTX Superclocked 1G DDR3, SSDNOW200 Kingston Drive, TrackIr 3000+Vector, Logitech Extreme 3D Pro joystick, Saitek rudder pedals pro, Sharp 42" inch LCD Aquo. OS: windows 7 64bit.
Esac_mirmidon Posted January 21, 2009 Posted January 21, 2009 Sure GG, sorry. " You must think in russian.." [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Windows 7 Home Premium-Intel 2500K OC 4.6-SSD Samsung EVO 860- MSI GTX 1080 - 16G RAM - 1920x1080 27´ Hotas Rhino X-55-MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals -Track IR 4
uhoh7 Posted January 21, 2009 Posted January 21, 2009 Regarding AH64A and flares. Tonite I was dealing with them quite a bit, in several GOC deliberate attack missions. One was an assault on a town near the sea--big town. The apaches came in to try and save the place. They sure seemed to have flares to me. I was watching on the TV, and they were throwing stuff out like crazy--very easy to see. Guess it could be chaff, but was very visible. E8600 Asus P5E Radeon 4870x2 Corsair 4gb Velociraptor 300gb Neopower 650 NZXT Tempest Vista64 Samsung 30" 2560x1600
McVittees Posted January 21, 2009 Posted January 21, 2009 I had no idea that the AH-64A never carried flares! Wow! For a minor military buff that's a top 'did you know' for me! :thumbup: Do '64A's still in service (by the US or other nations) continue to not use flare dispensers? It seems hard to believe. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] "Great minds think alike; idiots seldom differ.":pilotfly: i5 3750K@4.3Ghz, MSI Z77A GD55, 8GB DDR3, Palit GTX 670, 24" Benq@1920*1080, X52 Pro, Win 7 64bit.
CE_Mikemonster Posted January 21, 2009 Posted January 21, 2009 I know this is the 12th page and all, but the problem is that whilst the helicopter is at an unprecedented level of realism, the campaigns aren't. So in a horrible way you could say that both sides are right, because the Ka-50 is modelled using only 100% verified info. And it's application (in the campaigns), is based on mere theory. Soo.... Too many cowboys. Not enough indians. GO APE SH*T
GGTharos Posted January 21, 2009 Posted January 21, 2009 Which part of the campaigns aren't realistic? [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
CE_Mikemonster Posted January 21, 2009 Posted January 21, 2009 If the campaigns were realistic, they would have already happened at the date they are set at. Too many cowboys. Not enough indians. GO APE SH*T
GGTharos Posted January 21, 2009 Posted January 21, 2009 I don't understand what your complaint is about then. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
815TooCooL Posted January 21, 2009 Posted January 21, 2009 If the campaigns were realistic, they would have already happened at the date they are set at. Huh?? :huh: System: Core2Duo E8500, 4G ram, GTX260, SLC SSD, and Vista 32bit. LG W2600HP 26" LCD. Controls : MSFFB2, CH Pro throttle, Saitek rudder, Saitek throttle quadrant, and TrackIR4 BS Setting : medium with visibility HIGH More skill you get, more you Love DCS:Black Shark.
CE_Mikemonster Posted January 21, 2009 Posted January 21, 2009 Whoaa hang on, i'm not complaining. I just meant originally that any fictional campaigns are by definition not real. Wheras the flight model of the Ka-50 can be backed up by statistics, and is realistic. So when you combine the two there are bound to be conflicts like the Ka-50 not having a RWR. Too many cowboys. Not enough indians. GO APE SH*T
GGTharos Posted January 21, 2009 Posted January 21, 2009 No, the Ka-50 would not have had an RWR in a real conflict, just as Mi-24's didn't. In fact, the Ka-50 did not have an RWR is the real conflicts where it WAS used ;) [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
CE_Mikemonster Posted January 21, 2009 Posted January 21, 2009 You're right Tharos I just mean that for a conventional war the 12 Ka-50's wouldn't be used as tank destroyers, so RWR or not, the context of this discussion is theoretical. The Mi-28 has an RWR though, so i'm presuming that the Russians saw it as essential on a conventional battlefield. With the potential to carry a RWR, if a conventional war was brewing, (and Russia had large numbers of Ka-50's for use), I could see them being upgraded to carry one. To be honest it seems the only reason the Ka-50 doesn't have a RWR is that there's no point with only 12 in service to be used against soft targets in Chechnya. Too many cowboys. Not enough indians. GO APE SH*T
GGTharos Posted January 21, 2009 Posted January 21, 2009 Again, the Mi-24's used in Georgia, which DID have radar-based SAMs, were not equipped with RWR ;) If a conventional war is brewing, you might not have time to retrofit anything into anything. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
2win_TOWR Posted January 21, 2009 Posted January 21, 2009 Again, the Mi-24's used in Georgia, which DID have radar-based SAMs, were not equipped with RWR ;) If a conventional war is brewing, you might not have time to retrofit anything into anything. And thats the Point! If a conflict would show, that a RWR on the KA-50 is really needful, they would equip it. In this relative small Georgia conflict, the Helicopters were used after the Su-24´s destroyed most of the Radar emplacements. So why impliment this at this point? By the way, one can find a lot of pics in the internet showing abandoned georgian Radar-guided missile sites, which was encounterd by russian troops.
GGTharos Posted January 21, 2009 Posted January 21, 2009 I think you aren't understanding what I'm saying ... when war breaks out it's just a touch too late to retrofit your aircraft. Sure, you'll be doing upgrades as it goes on if it lasts long, but for 'day one' (And 2,3,4...40) you're screwed. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
CE_Mikemonster Posted January 21, 2009 Posted January 21, 2009 That's true, and to be honest I personally couldn't see them being fitted with RWR's ever seeing as there are so few of them. But then that's because surely in a high-threat battlefield environment where radar SAM's are active you'd use the Mi-28, with higher survivability, spare parts etc. I suppose the question really is more; "In the campaign in BS would the Ka-50 be fitted with a RWR" And that depends on how realistic the campaign is, and the events leading up to it. The Ka-50 in 2009 isn't an anti-armour helicopter is it? It's for supporting special forces and low[ish!]-threat work. So like I said both sides are right as far as i'm concerned. It's just a matter of which battlefield the helicopter would be used on, and the political events leading up to it. In the campaign in BS is there a large fleet of Ka-50's dedicated to high-threat battlefields, or is it a small fleet of specialist helicopters for low-tempo work..? Too many cowboys. Not enough indians. GO APE SH*T
GGTharos Posted January 21, 2009 Posted January 21, 2009 The Mi-28 didn't exist in a warfighting capacity IIRC until recently. And yes, the Ka-50 is still an ant-armour helicopter. It CAN do that job, but it's not what it's used for because as you correctly surmise, it is indeed under-equipped compared to the Mi-28N. In fact Ka-50 production has been stopped, and a very upgraded Ka-52 variant will be used instead IIRC. The BS campaigns let you experience both. The relatively low-thread environment, and the 'oh crap' moment when you're pitted against NATO in that Ka-50 all the sudden. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
EvilBivol-1 Posted January 21, 2009 Posted January 21, 2009 (edited) As far as we can tell at this point, the Mi-28s being received by the Russian military also do not have a RWR. As I pointed out early in this thread, neither do many Russian Mi-24s. You can attempt an argument that if the fictional conventional conflict depicted in one of the two campaigns in Black Shark would happen, Russia would suddenly equip all of these helicopters with RWR. I would say not. Edited January 21, 2009 by EvilBivol-1 - EB [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Nothing is easy. Everything takes much longer. The Parable of Jane's A-10 Forum Rules
2win_TOWR Posted January 21, 2009 Posted January 21, 2009 I think you aren't understanding what I'm saying ... when war breaks out it's just a touch too late to retrofit your aircraft. Sure, you'll be doing upgrades as it goes on if it lasts long, but for 'day one' (And 2,3,4...40) you're screwed. i know, what you saying, but if there was a real danger by radar guided weapons, they wouldn´nt send in the choppers. Its not like they have to take a situation as it is. Thats why the russians had always weapons with special tasks. Working off a check list. After the first wave destroyed the radar guided SAM´s, you can send in the choppers, cause they dont need RWR anymore. Simple and cost efficiency.
GGTharos Posted January 21, 2009 Posted January 21, 2009 Here's a link to the NIKE missile flight page: http://ed-thelen.org/flight.html I suggest perusing the website in general, there's a HUGE amount of info on the NIKE. Sure, it's an older SAM, but physics are not magical, and considerations are similar today even though the numbers change. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
GGTharos Posted January 21, 2009 Posted January 21, 2009 That's the theory. Who's going to take out all the little mobile, data-linked radar systems that do not keep their radars on all the time like they do in LOMAC, and/or manage to evade the SEAD missiles (unlike LOMAC) i know, what you saying, but if there was a real danger by radar guided weapons, they wouldn´nt send in the choppers. Its not like they have to take a situation as it is. Thats why the russians had always weapons with special tasks. Working off a check list. After the first wave destroyed the radar guided SAM´s, you can send in the choppers, cause they dont need RWR anymore. Simple and cost efficiency. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
CE_Mikemonster Posted January 21, 2009 Posted January 21, 2009 Basically then, what is current Russian doctrine for SEAD/DEAD on the battlefield in a conventional war? Will they send helicopters without RWR's into a radar monitored battlefield? Too many cowboys. Not enough indians. GO APE SH*T
2win_TOWR Posted January 21, 2009 Posted January 21, 2009 That's the theory. Who's going to take out all the little mobile, data-linked radar systems that do not keep their radars on all the time like they do in LOMAC, and/or manage to evade the SEAD missiles (unlike LOMAC) For that you have the KA-50 with just one Pilot instaed of two! :D
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