Trimming for on speed

[markturner1960]

Hi, I am new to learning this amazing beast and trying to get to grips with everything involved with a decent carrier break.......its HARD!!!! But I am loving flying this jet! 

I have big problems tying everything together in the break, keeping it level, while constantly trying to adjust the trim, deploy the flaps, gear, DLC. I certainly cant accurately do all this when breaking at 1 mile from the boat, I need a longer time. Everytime I glance into the pit at the speed or height, I seem to lose or gain altitude..

One big problem is getting the jet trimmed for on speed AoA for the downwind, if I get the bracket in the right place its really tricky keeping the jet level, how much should I be pulling on the stick and whats the ideal speed? I have tried engaging the ATC a few times once I have a good AoA and donut,, but this does not seem to keep the jet flying level... 

I am probably doing lots of things not quite right, but really, is it this difficult to fly the Tomcat? And if so, any tips for learning ? I really want to get to grips with this jet! 

 

Cheers

[WinOrLose]

Hi Mark,

First of all congrats on getting the best jet in DCS 

Takes a bit of practice but you will get there.

Set your tacan course to the BRC - helps you get lined up on the downwind.

Start off by getting your trim set for level flight with the wings back at 350knts.

At the 1 mile point extend speed breaks, start your bank and keep the velocity vector on the horizon and select wings to auto.

Keeping your VL on the horizon in the turn select gear at 280, flaps at 220 and when deployed select DLC (helps if all bound to a HOTAS).

You should aim to do this during the 180' turn to bring you  approx 1.1 - 1.2m from the boat (note you will be further than this when you first complete the 180 due to slant distance.)

At this point you should still be at 800ft and you should aim to slowly descent to 600ft. use back trim and not stick, to get the correct AOA, which depending on weight can be between 130 and 150knts approx. Its then a juggle between throttle and trim to get you there. You can practice this separately from landing, just choose an altitude and practice level flight in the landing configuration. 

Attached is one of the sets we practice.

Also the attached youtube video is quite useful and Mav has a sense of humour.

Also Banklers recovery trainer is a great tool as it tells you where you were out of parameters.

I'm UK based as well so if you fancy practicing drop me a message.

Regards Simon

 

 

[markturner1960]

Thanks Simon, I have the great Banklers mission and am using that, I do have a lot of hours and boat landings under my belt in the Hornet, (so I am fairly good with the general principles of recoveries) but the Tomcat is VERY different to fly. The slow speed excercise looks good, will try that. I guess its mostly a question of practice, like most things in DCS, do you use the ATC much? I just spent some time doing something similar to the exercise and actually managed to get one good roll out and trimmed for on speed out of about 6 attempts so it can be done!! Happy to meet up and do some flying! I am mark turner #7735 on Discord.....

[WinOrLose]

1 hour ago, markturner1960 said:

Thanks Simon, I have the great Banklers mission and am using that, I do have a lot of hours and boat landings under my belt in the Hornet, (so I am fairly good with the general principles of recoveries) but the Tomcat is VERY different to fly. The slow speed excercise looks good, will try that. I guess its mostly a question of practice, like most things in DCS, do you use the ATC much? I just spent some time doing something similar to the exercise and actually managed to get one good roll out and trimmed for on speed out of about 6 attempts so it can be done!! Happy to meet up and do some flying! I am mark turner #7735 on Discord.....

Hi Mark - if you have time in the hornet then the pattern is the same, just need practice to master on speed.. By ATC do you mean the in game comms, then yes, though I dont think the LSO is properly calibrated for the tomcat as he calls fast/slow even when on speed. Also fly with human ATC as well.

 

[Dentedend10]

I think he meant the automatic throttle control. Personally I don’t use it for recoveries unless it’s an automated carrier landing. 
minor correction, I believe it’s 280 knots where you open the wings and 250 where you lower the landing gear. 
it definitely takes lots of practice. Flying in landing configuration without actually landing is a great practice as mentioned above. Dirtying up and cleaning up the plane while trimming for AOA and trying to keep level.

with regards to throttle control compared to the hornet, the response time is going to be longer so you have to anticipate more in case of the F14.

have fun with it!

[Spurts]

I used to use ATC but I find getting it trimmed and flying the throttle to be easier.

[JupiterJoe]

Reflected's superb tutorial: 

[Callsign JoNay]

On 12/31/2022 at 7:45 PM, Spurts said:

I used to use ATC but I find getting it trimmed and flying the throttle to be easier.

I used to use ATC too, just because it was fun/different, but it doesn't play well with DLC. If you DLC forward to kill some lift, the ATC automatically adds power which is the opposite of what you want in that moment, and visa versa if you want to use DLC aft to add lift. I'm not sure if that's realistic? Seems like Grumman would've been smarter than to design it that way, but what do I know? ATC became not worth the hassle for me after the burble was implemented, so I just use manual throttle now.

[markturner1960]

Thx for all the advice everyone! Yes, I meant the auto throttle rather than the ATC ......Practicing hard and its not pretty...have yet to hit over 30 using Banklers mission  but really love flying this module, its so great the way it creaks and rattles and shakes, especially with my FFB stick & jet seat......the immersion is amazing in VR.....And I love how you really need to fly it , so different to the Hornet. Just need my Virpil F14 grip to arrive and I will be really in business.....! 

I have a quick query regarding the wing sweep,  - just done a few repetitions and by the end, despite putting the system to manual I was unable to get the wings to sweep back....what have I done? and why ? Thanks

Edited January 8, 2023 by markturner1960

[Lt_Jaeger]

Just trim to +10 on the trim indicator and you are golden. Slight adjustments are necessary off course. 

[Spurts]

1 hour ago, markturner1960 said:

I have a quick query regarding the wing sweep,  - just done a few repetitions and by the end, despite putting the system to manual I was unable to get the wings to sweep back....what have I done? and why ? Thanks

 

This is a bit confusing.  How did you put them into manual?  What repetitions were you doing?  Because the only two reasons I can see the wing not going back when commanded by the normal four way switch is because the system needs to be reset (emergency lever was used?) or the landing flaps are jammed.

[markturner1960]

Hi, so I was doing the normal break procedure, IE, over the boat at 350kts, wings swept in manual, 68 degrees. Break turn, airbrakes, wings to auto halfway round, flaps, gear, DLC....then landing and taking off again, ( this is the repetitions I referred to) the 4th time after take off, when I tried to go to manual and sweep the wings back to go back behind the boat for another pass, I could not get them to do that......not sure what I did.....

[Lt_Jaeger]

Overspending the flaps? If they stick out, wings won't move. 

[Spurts]

Make sure you are under 225 when you drop them before landing and that you pull them up immediately after takeoff.