DCS CH47 Discussion thread

[corbu1]

Maybe it‘s not only the 3D modelling and systems coding important for the CH-47F. I hope there‘s something more going on with adding features like troops transport sitting in the cargo bay or enhancing the slingloading feature in DCS and other things. These could also need some time for making happen.

[hermes7226]

Well, the Phantom is already on pre-order and will be released in February 2024, which means we won’t have to wait for the Chinook until spring 2024

[[DE] T-Bone]

1 hour ago, Coeptus said:

If you're trying to say we're going to be getting an export/foreign CH-47F we're not. 9L already confirmed we're getting a CH-47F and everything modern in DCS only goes up to around 2008/2009.

Maybe as an attachment in the mission editor, but for a US Army CH-47F, we don't need it.

Why don't we need it?

[Rick50]

16 hours ago, Coeptus said:

If you're trying to say we're going to be getting an export/foreign CH-47F we're not. 9L already confirmed we're getting a CH-47F and everything modern in DCS only goes up to around 2008/2009.

Maybe as an attachment in the mission editor, but for a US Army CH-47F, we don't need it.

you are reading too much into that post I  made.

 

All  I was trying to say is that the F is really getting  a lot of sales, foreign and domestic USA sales, regular and specops capabilities. That's it. 

Edited November 7, 2023 by Rick50

[slowmover]

I hope we see some news in the 2024 and Beyond video. I can not count how many times i watched the 2023 beyond video at 4:38

 

[Silver_Dragon]

I dont expected a "release" on 2024, to 2025, but surely will appears on "2024 and beyond".

[slowmover]

1:59:22 New year will be a big newslater and video talk about the chinook.  I hope Wags can give us some small info as christmas present 

[Cmadd78]

On 10/26/2023 at 8:51 AM, Bananabrai said:

I think so as well. It all depends on so many factors, but in general I think the ED coders know their code, classes, etc pretty well.
Also the CH-47 is at least system wise not as complex as an Apache, Hornet or Viper, and at least in the widest understanding in terms of modeling for DCS uses similar code etc.
Then there is the FM but that is different for everything...

In general I also think less complex modules like the WW2 birds took not as long as the complex ones, and they also got faster if I think about the Mossie for example.

By now it's their 5th helicopter and I think they know what they are doing.
Could still be 5 years out if they only have one guy sitting on it, in the end it is just speculation.

What if it is 25 month out. Will you buy it then only one day later? Or not at all?

If they are modeling the current ch-47 it is actually more in depth and more complex than the Apache. The chinook has multiple systems, backups, and more complex flight characteristics as a tandem rotor aircraft than the Apache. Yes….the Apache has weapon systems to access…..but the 47 flight model is much more difficult to replicate. Even the military flight sims don’t model the real aircraft perfectly. Been a 47 guy for over 20 years and still going. Hoping for a release date soon….but not holding my breath. 

[corbu1]

I‘m interested in helos in general and do flying them for more than 15 years in flightsimming…..so for me it‘s not only the weapons…..I really hope does the CH-47 FM really good.

[47_Driver]

I'm curious if I can find a way to get in touch with the development team for the 47. I'm an active CH-47F pilot and I'm sure I could offer some assistance with flight/systems modeling. The 47 is very easy to fly, (as long as the AFCS is on!), and it has some incredible systems available to the pilots. I'm curious how they'll factor in the role of the Flight Engineer. An essential part of the crew. Maybe an AI similar to George?

[Ipergallo]

So you have noticed the "Downgrade" in CH-47 version between the version annonced in 2023 and the version of the 2024 video... What do you think about standard F version and ICH-47F?

[BIGNEWY]

21 minutes ago, Ipergallo said:

So you have noticed the "Downgrade" in CH-47 version between the version annonced in 2023 and the version of the 2024 video... What do you think about standard F version and ICH-47F?

as Nineline has already mentioned 

Quote

The model was not correct for the version we determined we could do. At the time of the first reveal we really only had a model and the model was required to be adjusted. 

We are doing a US CH-47F, the model is now corrected.

Thank you

[LuseKofte]

To be honest I would like a steam punk cockpit with Vietnam features. But I can see the use of an early 2000 version consider the map we have. As I understood it we was to have an Export version ( Italian if memory do not fail me) and with what we have today a US operated is more relevant.  

5 hours ago, Brickle said:

I'm curious if I can find a way to get in touch with the development team for the 47. I'm an active CH-47F pilot and I'm sure I could offer some assistance with flight/systems modeling. The 47 is very easy to fly, (as long as the AFCS is on!), and it has some incredible systems available to the pilots. I'm curious how they'll factor in the role of the Flight Engineer. An essential part of the crew. Maybe an AI similar to George?

I never seen the collective of a chinook is it operated as a normal collective?  
easy you say? It might be true, but its missions was most definitely not. I have seen videos on what they are capable of doing. 
It must be a pretty demanding service. 
I would like to know how the cooperation between the pilots and flight engineers was if you have time. 

[Tantrum]

Just one question with the lever from watching the updates - is it a Thrust Brake or a Trust brake?

Looking forward to the module

[BIGNEWY]

45 minutes ago, Tantrum said:

Just one question with the lever from watching the updates - is it a Thrust Brake or a Trust brake?

Looking forward to the module

it has been pointed out before and will be checked, thanks

[47_Driver]

On 1/5/2024 at 3:21 PM, LuseKofte said:

To be honest I would like a steam punk cockpit with Vietnam features. But I can see the use of an early 2000 version consider the map we have. As I understood it we was to have an Export version ( Italian if memory do not fail me) and with what we have today a US operated is more relevant.  

I never seen the collective of a chinook is it operated as a normal collective?  
easy you say? It might be true, but its missions was most definitely not. I have seen videos on what they are capable of doing. 
It must be a pretty demanding service. 
I would like to know how the cooperation between the pilots and flight engineers was if you have time. 

The "collective" in the Chinook is called the Thrust Control Lever, or Thrust Lever. It operates as a normal collective, as in it collectively changes the pitch of all blades in the fore and aft rotor system. We call it thrust because we're better than everyone else.... lol. Really, we don't call it a collective because we also have the ability to change collective pitch with longitudinal cyclic, fwd cyclic increases collective pitch on the aft rotor and decreases it on the fwd, and vice versa. This is called Differential Collective Pitch and is a huge part of how Tandem Rotor helicopters operate. 

 

Missions can be complex, yes. And zero illumination under Night Vision Goggles certainly ups the ante. However, in terms of just pure control, the 47 is amazingly easy to fly. No tail rotor means no antitorque, no translating tendency, etc. The helicopter is extremely stable as long as the Automated Flight Control System is operational. Plus, it can basically fly itself from the ground to any given point, shoot an approach to a hover, and land with no more than two button pushes....

 

Crew coordination in the Chinook is huge. It's what we do better than anyone else. We have to, because up in the cockpit I have almost 100ft of helicopter behind me that I can't see. We rely on our Flight Engineers and Crew Chiefs to safely operate the aircraft. They also have their own set of gauges and indicator lights on what's called the Maintenance Panel in the back near the ramp. They can use this to diagnose a variety of issues. They monitor eng/transmission pressure and temperature, hydraulic system fluid levels and temp, etc etc. Those guys are awesome and there is no chance I could go out and fly a Chinook outside of anything but a traffic pattern without those guys.

[47_Driver]

On 8/18/2023 at 7:57 AM, Berniyh said:

I thought that what you can see at the bottom, slightly left from the middle in the image in the post that I quoted is a part of the co-pilot collective.

 

I also had a brief look at some cockpit photos from CH47 before, e.g.:

https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fryf8r6kkvqp51.jpg

 

 

 

I think I was confused a bit by those additional grips. I thought those were the collectives. I think when first looking at the images, I overlooked or misinterpreted the role of the actual collective.

However that means there is a question remaining: what are those additional grips for?

 

Those grips at the bottom are called the MFCU, Multi Function Control Unit. It's how we can control information on our MFDs. Similar to a HOTAS in a fighter jet. I can use the china hat at the top to slew around my map. There's a trigger on the bottom which I can use to "hook" onto targets, drop new points onto my route, look at data for an airport/fix, etc. It's very handy.

Someone was asking about the controls being mirrored. The Thrust is on the left side for both left seat and right seat. It's obviously just not pictured in that photo. Everything is exactly the same left or right. Sitting in the right seat and manipulating the CDU can be a bit of a pain because you have to work around the thrust lever.

Edited February 26, 2024 by Brickle

[AlphaOneSix]

1 hour ago, Coeptus said:

Does anyone by chance know what this knob does? Also, whilst I'm at it, how many pages and what exact pages are within the CH-47F's CDU? Thanks!

 

I'm pretty sure it's the AFCS system select switch. It goes OFF - 1 - BOTH - 2 - OFF and is normally in BOTH which will have both AFCS systems operating at 50% authority (gain?) each. If you put it in 1 or 2 it will activate just that system only at 75% authority. OFF turns off both systems.

[slowmover]

4 hours ago, AlphaOneSix said:

I'm pretty sure it's the AFCS system select switch. It goes OFF - 1 - BOTH - 2 - OFF and is normally in BOTH which will have both AFCS systems operating at 50% authority (gain?) each. If you put it in 1 or 2 it will activate just that system only at 75% authority. OFF turns off both systems.

You are correct. With AFCS to OFF position it should be hard,very hard to control it.

 

7 hours ago, Coeptus said:

This is a concern for me, too. The AH-64D flies like it doesn't have AFCS. The CH-47 is an easy aircraft to fly generally afaik, and the AFCS will only improve that.

 

You are also correct. CH-47 should be very easy to fly

[47_Driver]

On 3/6/2024 at 2:37 AM, AlphaOneSix said:

I'm pretty sure it's the AFCS system select switch. It goes OFF - 1 - BOTH - 2 - OFF and is normally in BOTH which will have both AFCS systems operating at 50% authority (gain?) each. If you put it in 1 or 2 it will activate just that system only at 75% authority. OFF turns off both systems.

Correct. AFCS system select switch. Off-1-Both-2-Off. Pretty spot on with the 3/4 and 1/2 gain comment as well. 1 AFCS system will operate on 3/4 gain, meaning the Integrated Lower Control Arm Actuators, ILCA's, will only input 3/4 of their full authority under both systems. I can assure you that you do NOT want to fly the CH-47 with the AFCS off in a simulator. Flying the aircraft AFCS off is an entirely seat-of-your-pants experience. It cannot be replicated in a sim and cannot be accomplished while focused on instruments. You are outside, and you are one with the aircraft. The Chinook has zero aerodynamic properties, and with the AFCS off it's probably (based on what I've flown), one of the most difficult helicopters in the world to fly. Nothing makes sense. Takes a lot of practice, but it's something we train for just about every time we fly it, at least when I'm on the aircraft calling the shots.

 

On 3/7/2024 at 7:46 AM, Coeptus said:

Hey everyone. Does anyone have a diagram showing what the HOCAS (Hands on Collective and Stick) are and what functionality for the CH-47F? Also, what are all the CDU screens in the CH-47F? Thanks everyone

There's a lot of CDU menus. Too many to list. I've never heard it called a HOCAS, certainly not in the Chinook (because collective=thrust), but I'll break it down a bit:

 

On the Cyclic: Trigger= mic. First detent is ICS, or internal to the aircraft. Second detent is whatever radio you have selected. AFCS trim switch functions like the trim in any airplane you've flown in DCS. Guarded External Load Jettison Switch. Master Caution ACKNOWLEDGE button. Chaff/Flare. Flight Director Uncouple. Force Trim Release. Cursor ACK switch and select switch, allows you to select something on the MFD, change what's displayed etc. Flare Jettison button.

On the Thrust Lever: Searchlight (D/IR Mode Switch), on/off, bright/dim, slew. DAFCS (Decel, ALT-I/ALT-R, LVL, DESCENT, POSN) mode select switch. This 4 way switch is what makes the Chinook awesome. MARK button, (markpoint). Remote Radio Control selector. GO AROUND trigger, (pinky), automatically cues the flight director for a climb to FL200 at 90KCAS and captures current heading, or cues FD to what you've entered in the CDU. Used for missed approaches or IIMC recovery. Thrust Mag Brake Trigger, (index finger). HUD stuff, which doesn't work on the latest F model.

[47_Driver]

18 hours ago, Coeptus said:

This is an amazing response, thank you so much. I heard you asking if ED could use some SMEs, and you can try DMing BigNewy or Nineline on Discord asking for that position. Also, could you by chance elaborate on what the Thrust Mag Brake Trigger and DAFCS does? Thanks

No problem. I've reached out to ED regarding help with development. They have a team of SME's already, but we'll see. The Thrust Mag Brake Trigger just disengages the Thrust Mag Brake that holds the thrust lever in place. When you want to increase/decrease thrust, squeeze the trigger and pull the lever up or push it down. Release the trigger and the thrust lever will stay where you released it. The mag break has a clutch that can be slipped with somewhere between 7 and 23lbs of force in the event of a failure of the mag brake. DAFCS is a bit complex to explain here, but stands for Digital Automatic Flight Control System. Has a ton of features, but in summary you can use ALT modes to capture current Inertial Altitude or Radar Altitude, DECEL mode to slow the aircraft to a hover from 65K ground speed (switches to POS mode which captures and locks in a perfect hover), DESCENT mode with DECEL mode to initiate a descent/decel to a hover, etc. Tons of functionality.

[47_Driver]

5 hours ago, Coeptus said:

So you have to hold down the Thrust Mag Brake in order to move the collective? Haven't heard of any other helicopter doing this, and I assume it's because the cyclic also is sort of a collective?

It's called the Thrust Control Lever in the Chinook, not the collective. This is because the cyclic can also collectively change the pitch in the fore/aft blades. Yes, you have to hold the trigger to move the Thrust lever up or down.

[MAXsenna]

So you have to hold down the Thrust Mag Brake in order to move the collective? Haven't heard of any other helicopter doing this, and I assume it's because the cyclic also is sort of a collective?

Ka-50, Mi-8, Mi-24...

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[MAXsenna]

Didn't know they did that. Thanks for sharing

You can enable it in the "Special" settings!
Cheers!

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[slowmover]

I want to ask how the development is going.Everything goes normal? Also with the chinook will we have new animations on troops?