correct as is Incorrect aileron deflection with gear lever down

[bkthunder]

"The flaperons are located on the wing trailing edge and function as ailerons and TEF's. The flaperons have a maximum command deflection of 20 degrees down and 23 degrees up. When acting as flaps, the deflection is downward; when acting as ailerons, the deflection is up or down, as commanded. Both functions are operable whenever the FLCS is powered. The TEF's are controlled as a function of the LG handle position, the ALT FLAPS switch, airspeed, and mach number."

 

As of today in DCS, with LG down and on the ground, full later stick deflection commands the aileron to the full up position, while it should at max go to neutral (one flaperon full down, the other at neutral position).

[smire666]

Nice catch

[DummyCatz]

Seems that there's indeed no ratio/gain changes to the roll command, or any other logic changes to cause the flaperons to be deflected upwards with TEF down, so yeah the flaperons should at max go to neutral position.

A little more references to back it up:

https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/citations/ADA202599

https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/citations/ADA189675

 

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Edit: NVM. The DCS implementation seems correct. The Surface Command Mixer is responsible of mixing and enhancing the commands from the roll channel, so with both roll command and TEF command outputting a value of 21.5, the left and right aileron should be at -21.5 and 21.93 each.

Quoting page 25 of A189675 (https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/pdfs/ADA189675.pdf)

 

Provided that the document is dated 1988, apart from the public link I'll also post the cover and distribution statement:

Edited January 18, 2023 by DummyCatz

[BIGNEWY]

Hi, 

we are looking at this but not convinced, if you do have any more public data please PM me. 

thank you

[bkthunder]

I believe I stated the exact document and page number in my post but I think you edited it. In that case no, I don't have another source other than all the videos you can find online and observe for yourself.

I am also not coinvinced by the current DCS implementation, and haven't seen any public data that says the ailerons deflect full up on the ground, so if you guys can share anything in that regard it would be great!

[skywalker22]

Ailerons go also up, not sure how much, but here you can clearly see they go:

 

Edited January 17, 2023 by skywalker22

[skywalker22]

Or check here, how much up they go, even if you cant see it actually, but they surely go over the horizontal position: 

 

Here is well visible, they go way up, I would say to their max top positon:

Also @ 3:45.

Edited January 17, 2023 by skywalker22

[DummyCatz]

I stand corrected. A more careful look at the Control Surface Mixer diagram in Page 25, https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/pdfs/ADA189675.pdf reveals that the aileron does go over the horizontal position.

[bkthunder]

Yep, I have seen those videos yesterday as well and PMd to Bignewy. However I also found a video where they clearly don't go up... 

I think it boils down to the pilot rarely waiting for the full deflection to be achieved, hence why it's hard to notice

[skywalker22]

Here you can finally see from behind, how ailerons go waaay up, almost as high as in currently in DCS.  They go up, right to that edge line (in DCS go even over).

 

Edited January 18, 2023 by skywalker22

[BIGNEWY]

At this time we are not seeing any issue here, not enough to change the current implementation. 

thank you

[skywalker22]

21 hours ago, BIGNEWY said:

At this time we are not seeing any issue here, not enough to change the current implementation. 

thank you

Exactly. Maybe, maybe, you could set the max top position at that edge line (as said before), becuase now in DCS it goes over (an inch to high).