Possibility for the F-15E to fly without CFT

[Backy 51]

10 minutes ago, SkateZilla said:

Those are Export Operators,

Article was implying that Current USAF/ANG Units were removing the CFTs from Currently Operating Es in the USAF / ANG Inventory to operate in the A2A Role,
When it's in Fact the F-15EX's are being assigned to those units without CFTs to replace the F-15Cs.

So I stand by my understanding of what the article is saying.

My Status and Group on the forums have zero influence or impact on my statements.

Lakenheath and the 48th Fighter Wing are not Foreign Military Sales (FMS) operators.  Do your homework.

Edited January 28, 2023 by Backy 51

[Deano87]

7 minutes ago, SkateZilla said:

Those are Export Operators,

Please explain specifically what you mean. Because these were 492nd sqn jets I’m talking about. 

[SkateZilla]

26 minutes ago, Deano87 said:

Please explain specifically what you mean. Because these were 492nd sqn jets I’m talking about. 

Sorry, In regards to 492nd FS
They were operating in a modified A2A Configuration out of England / RAF Lakenheath for Training Purposes (ACE),
And Testing / Limited deployment, the Functionality has not been deployed to the entire USAF / ANG Fleet, nor is it expected to..

It makes sense the USAF Started testing the configuration the last few years, as it's the configuration the F-15EXs are going to be running in the A2A Roles due to lack of CFT availability.

Posting across 3 threads and 2 discords got my replies a bit jumbled.
Export comment can tentatively work here as well though, as it's literally the same mechanic of removing A2G Items for Pure A2A Role.

 

Edited January 28, 2023 by SkateZilla

[Backy 51]

11 minutes ago, Deano87 said:

Please explain specifically what you mean. Because these were 492nd sqn jets I’m talking about. 

You mean as it relates to this quote from the previously referenced article?    "In fact, the F-15E community is now flying with an all-new combat configuration, based on a jet stripped of CFTs. The 492nd Fighter Squadron “Madhatters” at RAF Lakenheath began conducting deterrence operations at Łask Air Base, Poland, on November 29, 2022, as part of a scheduled aircraft rotation in support of the U.S. forward fighter presence along NATO’s eastern flank. In 2022, the squadron paved the way for the first-ever combat-credible no-CFT F-15E configuration. This is designed to increase the Strike Eagle’s air dominance capabilities by “enabling supercruise capability, maximizing offensive flow, and enhancing survivability within and beyond visual range with a full combat loadout,” according to USAFE."

[SkateZilla]

Limited to specific Sqns, in Testing or Specific Regional Roles.

The Same can be said for the reverse request to put CFTs on the F-15Cs.

Either way it's up to RB, but even going by notso's Discord post, it's not planned to be anytime soon.

I'll Take Ownership of the "No F-15E Currently Operating is removing CFTs" Comment, as that's obviously wrong,
Thanks.

Edited January 28, 2023 by SkateZilla

[Scott-S6]

30 minutes ago, Backy 51 said:

You mean as it relates to this quote from the previously referenced article?    "In fact, the F-15E community is now flying with an all-new combat configuration, based on a jet stripped of CFTs. The 492nd Fighter Squadron “Madhatters” at RAF Lakenheath began conducting deterrence operations at Łask Air Base, Poland, on November 29, 2022, as part of a scheduled aircraft rotation in support of the U.S. forward fighter presence along NATO’s eastern flank. In 2022, the squadron paved the way for the first-ever combat-credible no-CFT F-15E configuration. This is designed to increase the Strike Eagle’s air dominance capabilities by “enabling supercruise capability, maximizing offensive flow, and enhancing survivability within and beyond visual range with a full combat loadout,” according to USAFE."

"The two Lakenheath squadrons have started flying ‘clean’ — without CFTs — on occasions since the 493rd Fighter Squadron ceased operations with the F-15C Eagle in 2022."

"On occasions" is the key phrase there. Still not standard operational practice. 

[SkateZilla]

4 minutes ago, Scott-S6 said:

"The two Lakenheath squadrons have started flying ‘clean’ — without CFTs — on occasions since the 493rd Fighter Squadron ceased operations with the F-15C Eagle in 2022."

"On occasions" is the key phrase there. Still not standard operational practice. 

They are testing the configuration in an active status for when the Get their F-15EX's, they will also be flying in A2A Only Configuration in replacing the C's Previous Role.

 

[Nahen]

I want to vomit from these discussions...
Can someone close this?

[Pede]

43 minutes ago, Backy 51 said:

You mean as it relates to this quote from the previously referenced article?    "In fact, the F-15E community is now flying with an all-new combat configuration, based on a jet stripped of CFTs. The 492nd Fighter Squadron “Madhatters” at RAF Lakenheath began conducting deterrence operations at Łask Air Base, Poland, on November 29, 2022, as part of a scheduled aircraft rotation in support of the U.S. forward fighter presence along NATO’s eastern flank. In 2022, the squadron paved the way for the first-ever combat-credible no-CFT F-15E configuration. This is designed to increase the Strike Eagle’s air dominance capabilities by “enabling supercruise capability, maximizing offensive flow, and enhancing survivability within and beyond visual range with a full combat loadout,” according to USAFE."

Ah yes, the famous USAFE, also super cruise? This article is clickbait and yall took it hook and sinker. 

[Cunning_Raven]

Can we just lock this topic before it get's out of hand?

[Nahen]

I will repeat something that has been written hundreds of times over the last near 2 year -

The USAF F-15E has never flown without a CFT except for maintenance and during service flights. Never means from 1988 when they entered service with the USAF until mid-2022. That is, for 44 years of their service.
The fact that the 48th wing started flying SINGLE planes in the middle of last year - probably only four machines from the 492nd SQ were deprived of CFT "for longer" according to my personal observations - means nothing. After the withdrawal of the F-15C from the 493rd in Lakenheath, someone decided that it was worth setting up a few machines in this way and practicing their use to a limited extent in place of the withdrawn F-15Cs. Let me remind you, we compare the period of 44 years with 5-6 months...
That the F-15E can fly without CFT is a fact, but that it has never done so is also a fact.
And the most important thing is that RAZBAM announced that there will be NO REMOVABLE CFTs. So why these discussions once again in a new topic after more than a year ago?
The previous topic started in september 2021 and was closed on january 21 this year...
I have a request that the "newcomers" first read at least what is in the topic headers on the first two pages of the section devoted to the F-15E and do not re-create topics that were finally closed a few days ago.

Edited January 28, 2023 by Nahen

[Cunning_Raven]

9 minutes ago, Cunning_Raven said:

Can we just lock this topic before it get's out of hand?

[Dragon1-1]

10 minutes ago, Nahen said:

That the F-15E can fly without CFT is a fact, but that it has never done so is also a fact.

Until now. It never did so before, but now it does, and they appear to be doing just fine without CFTs. RAZBAM themselves stated it's not ruled out any more. Not planned for EA, but a distinct possibility at some point down the road. 

Stop trying to will unorthodox configurations out of existence. There are edge cases, like 4xHARM loadout on the Viper, bombs on the F-15C, or the CFT-less F-15E where they are uncommon, but still part of how the jet can and has been flown in training for real combat employment.

[Nahen]

11 minutes ago, Dragon1-1 said:

Until now. It never did so before, but now it does, and they appear to be doing just fine without CFTs. RAZBAM themselves stated it's not ruled out any more. Not planned for EA, but a distinct possibility at some point down the road. 

Stop trying to will unorthodox configurations out of existence. There are edge cases, like 4xHARM loadout on the Viper, bombs on the F-15C, or the CFT-less F-15E where they are uncommon, but still part of how the jet can and has been flown in training for real combat employment.

Do you understand that no one has ever trained anyone on the F-15E in this way? Where did you get this information from? Do you write such stories yourself?
F-15EX - is to replace the F-15C in the first squadrons equipped with it. Hence no CFT order for the F-15EX. They are to replace the F-15C. The F-15C is an F-15C aircraft that can drop bombs but never does - in the USAF - except for isolated cases, tests, studies, etc. Never in the official pilot training cycle F-15C there was no bombing training, same like flying without CFT in the process F-15E training. Instead of inventing your "history", show me documents - outlines of training programs on the F-15E where training on planes without CFT was an element.

PLEASE CLOSE THIS TOPIC !!!!!!!

[Cunning_Raven]

29 minutes ago, Cunning_Raven said:

This is the third time now.

[Dragon1-1]

20 minutes ago, Nahen said:

PLEASE CLOSE THIS TOPIC !!!!!!!

Please don't. That some people insist, loudly, that there is nothing to discuss, doesn't mean there's nothing to discuss. I would, however, be in favor of purging certain off-topic spam.

20 minutes ago, Nahen said:

Instead of inventing your "history", show me documents - outlines of training programs on the F-15E where training on planes without CFT was an element.

Good luck with your FOIA request, even with the recent debate about the US overclassification problem, you're not going to get your hands on 2022-era training programs, because that's one thing that probably should be classified. We have confirmed observations of planes going out to training in loadouts that were previously not used. Not much to go on, but we see the aircraft going to and from ranges. And no, those are not "tests", those are operational aircraft. If they were tests, they'd be doing them in NTTR, not in Poland. Even if it's just four aircraft, it's very much an operational base near a potential flashpoint. 

RAZBAM themselves stated it's a possibility. They have an actual Eaglejet driver on staff, whose words you seem disregard every time they don't confirm your biases. 

29 minutes ago, Nahen said:

The F-15C is an F-15C aircraft that can drop bombs but never does - in the USAF - except for isolated cases, tests, studies, etc.

You have a very interesting definition of "never". Tests, studies, isolated cases, maybe also training doesn't count if the whole USAF doesn't do it? The F-15C dropped bombs for quite some time, in squadrons that had CFTs, and which were to be sent to Middle East had things blown up over there in the 80s in a manner that would have required sending jets. For that, there were F-15C squadrons flying with CFTs and, yes, bombs. Reality is not black and white and "isolated cases" are usually the most interesting ones.

[Nahen]

2 minutes ago, Dragon1-1 said:

Please don't. That some people insist, loudly, that there is nothing to discuss, doesn't mean there's nothing to discuss. I would, however, be in favor of purging certain off-topic spam.

Good luck with your FOIA request, even with the recent debate about the US overclassification problem, you're not going to get your hands on 2022-era training programs, because that's one thing that probably should be classified. We have confirmed observations of planes going out to training in loadouts that were previously not used. Not much to go on, but we see the aircraft going to and from ranges. And no, those are not "tests", those are operational aircraft. If they were tests, they'd be doing them in NTTR, not in Poland. Even if it's just four aircraft, it's very much an operational base near a potential flashpoint. 

RAZBAM themselves stated it's a possibility. They have an actual Eaglejet driver on staff, whose words you seem disregard every time they don't confirm your biases. 

You have a very interesting definition of "never". Tests, studies, isolated cases, maybe also training doesn't count if the whole USAF doesn't do it? The F-15C dropped bombs for quite some time, in squadrons that had CFTs, and which were to be sent to Middle East had things blown up over there in the 80s in a manner that would have required sending jets. For that, there were F-15C squadrons flying with CFTs and, yes, bombs. Reality is not black and white and "isolated cases" are usually the most interesting ones.

You want to compare 44 years with 6 months and 4 planes?? Thanks for the ingenuity!!

As for the F-15, someone has already written about it - only that the dates have slipped ... and still none of the F-15C pilots I spoke to confirmed that any official bombing training was taking place in 1980-1988. All these pilots flew in the years 1985-2000 on the F-15C.

The fact that someone assumed the use of the F-15 in such a way is not tantamount to preparing a training cycle. And thus, it does not coincide with the actual training and use.

Maybe it's better to push the idea of F-15C Full Fidelity instead of distorting the idea of F-15E ...

[hip3rion]

Minor correction but 1988 to 2022 isnt 44 years.

[SkateZilla]

1979-> 2022 For the F-15C, is 43 years.

[=DROOPY=]

This thread is

Oh wait... 

 

[hip3rion]

Quote

The USAF F-15E has never flown without a CFT except for maintenance and during service flights. Never means from 1988 when they entered service with the USAF until mid-2022. That is, for 44 years of their service.

This is the sentence I was correcting and we are indeed talking about F-15E not C.

[Dragon1-1]

7 hours ago, Nahen said:

You want to compare 44 years with 6 months and 4 planes??

I don't want to compare anything. I want a capability that is there, and is being used right now. You don't know for how long it will be, and you don't know what are their plans for it, and you don't know if there's a training program, because it's classified. Yes, they might be roleplaying F-15Cs for the heck of it, or because they miss the thrill of doing air to air since the C is gone. I find it that if it was just that, they wouldn't have been allocated any jets or even kerosene for them. By your logic, we shouldn't have Walleye on our Hornet because it was only used on F-18As, and then only in ODS, for a small fraction of Hornet's service life (and yes, I'm aware you would rather see the Walleye gone. It's just as silly). 

Your peddling humbug is not an "explanation", also on the F-15C. People actually in the know, such as Notso or Carlo Kopp, said it happened. Your counterargument is... a bunch of random, unnamed F-15C drivers you met in Poland. Fighter pilots like to act like they know everything about their aircraft, but trust me, unless they're SMEs, they don't. When two independent, named experts say one thing (even giving dates and units in one case), and you say another, how likely do you think it is that they're the ones who are wrong? 

Also, just to remind you, RAZBAM are the ones who had recently put a few loadouts on the AV-8B that are very much incorrect for USMC use of that particular version, but are there so it can stand in for UK Harriers. I'm afraid you're going to see a lot of modules "ruined" by things like Walleye, Sidearm or other rare configurations.

Edited January 29, 2023 by Dragon1-1

[Nahen]

2 hours ago, Dragon1-1 said:

Your peddling humbug is not an "explanation", also on the F-15C. People actually in the know, such as Notso or Carlo Kopp, said it happened. Your counterargument is... a bunch of random, unnamed F-15C drivers you met in Poland. Fighter pilots like to act like they know everything about their aircraft, but trust me, unless they're SMEs, they don't. When two independent, named experts say one thing (even giving dates and units in one case), and you say another, how likely do you think it is that they're the ones who are wrong? 

 

I'll just address this because everything else has been rolled around for almost two years and I'm kind of bored, - Accuse the pilots of the 48th Wing that they know nothing about their planes, that they don't know anything about training F-15 pilots, and they're random." pilots". Especially to the pilots of the 493rd SQ flying in the times I wrote about.
Sorry, but I don't feel entitled to mention anyone's name in a stupid discussion on a computer game forum.
End of story for me.

[Dragon1-1]

I'm not accusing them of not knowing nothing. I'm accusing them of not knowing everything. They're fighter pilots, so they might take offense just the same, but that doesn't change the fact that there are things that were done with Eaglejets that they haven't heard about. They know about their training and their procedures, not what goes on in some other fighter wing on the other side of the US. And yes, for the purpose of this discussion, they're "random" Eaglejet jocks, because non-random ones would be from the 1st TFW or from Langley.

I don't care much that you don't namedrop any of your sources, but tell me, what makes any one of them more credible than dr. Kopp or Notso? The former, in particular, has quite a background, and not just as a pilot.

[Tvrdi]

I wonder why Razbam simply didnt go with F15C. Easier to make and it would be more convenient since ppl are mostly flying singleplayer and we in multiplayer more often than not- alone. In one plane, that is. Yes, we already have 15C but...ehhh, low fidelity.

Edited January 29, 2023 by Tvrdi