7800X3D, 7900X3D, 7950X3D..

[Fakum]

What is the anticipated pricing of this 7800X3D when it becomes avail Apr 6th? I'm spinning down a rabbit hole now trying to figure out if maybe I should learn AMD and do a build on that instead of Intel instead. My head hurts LOL Ive been reading for a couple days, I am overloading my skull! Even considering the advise just to upgrade in stead of build, putting myself just in a Gen 4 / DDR4 only build or upgrade. So many avenue's!

[some1]

449$, so 150$ cheaper than 7900X3D. Of course no guarantee that you'll be able to buy it at that price, demand may be higher than stock.

Edited March 27, 2023 by some1

[Fakum]

Thanks,, yeah, I can only imagine how fast that will sell out! 

[Kettingspanner]

What do you guy's recommend for a new build? Over here in the Netherlands the 7950x3d isn't on stock. Ordered it, waited more then 2 weeks and got the message that its not available. They don's expect it soon. So i'm thinking about buying the 7900x3d.

Reasons?

The 7950x3d is being preordered for €789 (msrp over here)
The 7900x3d being sold for €600 (msrp - 12%)
The 7800x3d being all that hyped, i wont be expecting it being sold here within the next two months, certainly not under msrp.

Seeing all the reviews and expectations on the 7800 it is a bit unclear to me. I don't see any sidenotes on differences in cach mem per core (In favour of the 7900x3d) and the ability to use all the 8 cores of the 7800 and 7950 effectively in modern games. If i see benchmarks, i see framerate differences between the 7950 and the 7900 that are marginal to me. 

Is it worth waiting for several weeks and pay about 30% more for the 7950 upgrade? Or perhaps buying a temporary 7700 and wait for the 7800x3d to drop in price and sell the 7700? 
I have my build here waiting for the processor, would like to start building.

[some1]

Personally I will try to get 7800x3d, but if it won't be available or it will be sold at a price close to 7900x3d, then I'd just buy 7900x3d. 

In most cases 7900x3d is still going to be the faster cpu, at least as long as Windows scheduler is doing its job.

[Hoirtel]

I probably would have bought a 7950X3D by now if they had been available, but I will be trying for a 7800X3D. Personally I think that unless you really need all the cores the dual CCD chips just don't seem worth it for DCS. I would have bought a 7950X3D out of impatience and would almost certainly disable the second CCD until the scheduler gets a bit better. From what I can read multicore DCS spreads workloads around and the scheduler struggles to park the non vcache cores therefore keeping them open for use. This will almost certainly be worse with the 7900X3D as with less cores it will have an even harder job of parking the second CDD. I haven't bought this despite it being discounted now, I think AMD will undership others to keep this the most available chip. There is also a bit of a latency penalty of going across two CCDs which is why I just want to use one. 

As I am coming up from a much older intel CPU I have lots to gain in any direction so if I fail to get a 7800X3D I will just get a 7700X and have a little cry that I could of done this months ago... I will then decide down the line if its worth upgrading to the X3D or go back in the waiting line for the new thing... 

In short, the 7900X3D or 7900X isn't on my list...

Edited April 5, 2023 by Hoirtel

[some1]

11 minutes ago, Hoirtel said:

I would have bought a 7950X3D out of impatience and would almost certainly disable the second CCD until the scheduler gets a bit better. From what I can read multicore DCS spreads workloads around and the scheduler struggles to park the non vcache cores therefore keeping them open for use. This will almost certainly be worse with the 7900X3D as with less cores it will have an even harder job of parking the second CDD.

The cores on the second CCD do not have to be parked, as long as DCS is not running on them. Other background tasks should be free to use them if needed. That's the job of the scheduler, not to shut down CCD completely.

The only real test of the scheduler with 7950X3D and 7900X3D is to run the same DCS benchmark with and without second CCD enabled in bios, and compare the results. Like the guys at TPU did when simulating 7800X3D with 7950X3D. https://www.techpowerup.com/review/ryzen-7800x3d-performance-preview/

[Hoirtel]

2 hours ago, some1 said:

The cores on the second CCD do not have to be parked, as long as DCS is not running on them. Other background tasks should be free to use them if needed. That's the job of the scheduler, not to shut down CCD completely.

The only real test of the scheduler with 7950X3D and 7900X3D is to run the same DCS benchmark with and without second CCD enabled in bios, and compare the results. Like the guys at TPU did when simulating 7800X3D with 7950X3D. https://www.techpowerup.com/review/ryzen-7800x3d-performance-preview/

Yes, thats the theory but from what I can understand (I could be wrong), workloads switch cores all the time and as quite a few games are still pretty much single threaded the scheduler does quite a good job at keeping them on the side they are supposed to be. DCS now using two full threads and a third for audio has more to contain and if the other cores are not parked then they may end up getting used.

The latency penalty for going across two CCD's is real in some games, which is why the 7700X has done so well in places. This applies to those games that are also single threaded. Unsure if DCS reacts like this but when I consider than I now use MT DCS and a VR application, and other side apps, there is quite a bit and I would prefer just to keep everything on the one CCD. If that CCD has eight cores and sixteen threads, all good.  

Edited April 5, 2023 by Hoirtel

[some1]

47 minutes ago, Hoirtel said:

workloads switch cores all the time and as quite a few games are still pretty much single threaded the scheduler does quite a good job at keeping them on the side they are supposed to be. DCS now using two full threads and a third for audio has more to contain and if the other cores are not parked then they may end up getting used.

Workloads normally don't switch cores by themselves, scheduler does that. That's because it is in fact beneficial for the modern CPU to spread the load (heat) between cores rather than lock them to a single one and suffer from thermal throttling. Plus even the threads that seemingly need 100% CPU, usually are in a wait state multiple times a second and can yield the core for other tasks.

Locking the game to one CCD is fairly trivial, as the scheduler knows which process owns each thread and can simply decide that it won't move these threads to the second CCD. At least as long as the game doesn't explicitly set the affinity mask, or create a dozen of threads with heavy computations inside that all want to run at the same time. 

From the reviews I've seen online, there are a few odd cases but 7700X is behind 7900X most of the time, if only marginally. Overall, it's not worth the extra $$$ just for gaming, but if the prices of 7800x3d will be high, and availability low, then 7900x3d starts to look tempting.

Anyway, 7800X3D reviews should be up today, in about 2-3 hours.

Edited April 5, 2023 by some1

[Fakum]

There are some comparison tests already posted up on UTube that compare the 7800X3D to the I9-13900K (Im trying to decide between the 2) and although the FPS on the 7800X3D are higher, I see the 1% numbers for the 13900K much more favorable by my interpretation?

 

[BitMaster]

Don’t forget the cooling issue.

A 7000 series is way easier to please with cooling compared to the untamable power hungry 13900k.

that alone rules out Intel for me

[some1]

23 minutes ago, Fakum said:

There are some comparison tests already posted up on UTube

Anything that pops on YT before the actual embargo lift is most likely faked. Especially if they don't even show the hardware on screen, just the results.

[Fakum]

@BitMasterYes sir! I am aware of the heat matter with Intel, and that is probably the most important thing that is nudging me more towards AMD. There is not a day that goes by that I am not reading up on this stuff. Fortunately, I have time before I am ready to start buying parts. But one of the things I have been reading up on in the last 2 days (That I had no real idea about) was these 1% & .01% benchmark results. And unless I am wrong, my browsing of this matter leads me to believe that the disparity matters most with VR. I'm not into VR yet, but its on my radar. Bottom line, which CPU is best for DCS , but since I have the option to go either way with a new build, I just want to make the best, long term choice. Should i even care to focus on the potential 1% differences? Who knows? Im sure its going to take awhile before any DCS Simmers get their hands on a 7800X3D, and do some testing and post up the results.

@some1 Thanks for the comment, perhaps I made an incorrect assumption on those Benchmarks posted? I presumed that those folks were provided with those AMD CPUs prior to public launch for evaluation etc?

[some1]

25 minutes ago, Fakum said:

@some1 Thanks for the comment, perhaps I made an incorrect assumption on those Benchmarks posted? I presumed that those folks were provided with those AMD CPUs prior to public launch for evaluation etc?

Such arrangements would be under strict NDA, not for the guy to just blow it up on his 10k subs Youtube channel before the actual press outlets get their embargo lifted. 

[EightyDuce]

Most reviews are up:

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 5, 2023 by EightyDuce

[Beirut]

Is it clear if DCS prefers the memory cache as opposed to a higher frequency? 

[Fakum]

Thats a great question, I forgot to ask myself. 

[brain_delay]

I mean TheChosenOne posted this on the previous page which shows 3d cache scales incredibly well. Insane performance.

 

Edited April 5, 2023 by brain_delay

[Beirut]

42 minutes ago, Fakum said:

Thats a great question, I forgot to ask myself. 

 

I take great pride in my lack of knowledge. 

[Fakum]

I dont think we will really know the answer to that until the DCS simmer's provide feedback?

[SilentSierra]

I'm curious to see how much money, in Brazilian currency, with all taxes and stuffs will cost to me.

Tomorrow we will see.

Edited April 5, 2023 by SilentSierra

[Fakum]

Thats assuming you get the option to buy before they sell out. Good luck to all of us.

[BitMaster]

Let’s see when and for what price we can actually buy them.

A good friend called me last night and said he wanted to upgrade and foremost go back to a Nvidia card, likely 4070ti and more RAM too, like 32GB.

we went over many possible options, considering he runs an Aorus Ultra X570 with a 3800X and 16GB 3200 cl14 GSkill.

intel rules out, too expensive and hot, 7800X3D is unobtainable as of now so we opted for a 5800X3D,  additional 16GB same Bdie GSkill kit, a MSI trio 4070ti, a bequiet 1kW PSU with ATX3.0, darkrock pro 4 and 2 new fans. That already breaks the bank. It got so expensive, even a partial upgrade, without board and full 32GB DDR5kit, that would be another 400 round about. And any other CPU may not get by with an aircooler but the 5800X3D can.

If he orders that config I will try DCS on it, gonna build it either way he decides.

AM5 is just very expensive… a real hurdle

[EightyDuce]

32 minutes ago, BitMaster said:

Let’s see when and for what price we can actually buy them.

A good friend called me last night and said he wanted to upgrade and foremost go back to a Nvidia card, likely 4070ti and more RAM too, like 32GB.

we went over many possible options, considering he runs an Aorus Ultra X570 with a 3800X and 16GB 3200 cl14 GSkill.

intel rules out, too expensive and hot, 7800X3D is unobtainable as of now so we opted for a 5800X3D,  additional 16GB same Bdie GSkill kit, a MSI trio 4070ti, a bequiet 1kW PSU with ATX3.0, darkrock pro 4 and 2 new fans. That already breaks the bank. It got so expensive, even a partial upgrade, without board and full 32GB DDR5kit, that would be another 400 round about. And any other CPU may not get by with an aircooler but the 5800X3D can.

If he orders that config I will try DCS on it, gonna build it either way he decides.

AM5 is just very expensive… a real hurdle

Just ordered mine. Should be here Monday. 

 

 

Edited April 6, 2023 by EightyDuce

[Hoirtel]

7 minutes ago, EightyDuce said:

Just ordered mine. Should be here Monday. 

 

 

 

Well done! Here in UK none seem to be in stock right from the first go. I was F5ing on all major retailers. One retailer says they will have them mid to end of April and I have placed a preorder so should be in first batch. Others just say - Nuh