7800X3D, 7900X3D, 7950X3D..

[Hoirtel]

22 minutes ago, Thinder said:

I used the stock BIOS and updated it after I realized that the stock settings were limiting the CPU to 3600MHz, once the BIOS updated it runs to its optimal frequency without issue.

The cooking BIOS issue doesn't concern my TUF GAMING, once again, one must be careful not to generalize when one type of device has issues, there have been a number of cases from both AMD, Intel and NVIDIA, it didn't make all of their devices plagued with the same problem.

I frankly don't regret my choice to stick to DDR4, I was reluctant to make the jump to DDR5 because the technology is not yet mature and after some initial problems caused mainly by anything else than the CPU or GPU, once the system is stable it flies in VR/MT like it really was meant to do.

Things to look at which are or can be source of problems:

Microsoft Automatic Updates; replacing AMD drivers with their own and embedding MPO settings limiting the performances of the GPU. MTO Fix

AMD Ryzen 7 5800X 3D Max Operating Temperature (Tjmax) of 90°C, it is not very high, if your case cooling is average it might cause the CPU to throttle down due to thermal limits.

Progresses due to use of MT:

From <> 15% CPU bottleneck, even with the GPU running at 3000MHz (with the previous driver), the CPU now works all cores in a way that get the GPU to work a lot harder to process all the data, the bottleneck is now the GPU and I bet it would be much the same with an 4080 only looking at its boost stats, my Sapphire ran 19.50% faster, you'll need a watercooled O.Ced GPU to achieve parity with the humble 7 5800X 3D performances.

Where it can be improved: Timeframe, use of memory, cooling (case, CPU), B.Die RAM (if you haven't get one of those kits yet).

 

Jeeze it was a question about the Ryzen 7000x3d series in the correct thread. You're always pushing your 5800 and DDR4 it bears no relation to what any of us are discussing. Go to a 5800x3d thread. 

Edited June 14, 2023 by Hoirtel

[Thinder]

1 hour ago, Hoirtel said:

Jeeze it was a question about the Ryzen 7000x3d series in the correct thread. You're always pushing your 5800 and DDR4 it bears no relation to what any of us are discussing. Go to a 5800x3d thread. 

 

STFU. I was responding to THIS below, IF YOU'RE NOT HAPPY COOK YOURSELF AN EGG or apply for moderator position.

Quote

2)also assuming the issue with the Asus motherboards and AMD CPU's has now been resolved with a firmware update - or is it still worth considering an intel?

So what was the relevance of my post?

ASUS motherboard cooking the Ryzen 7000 CPU? And of course there is no immaturity in new technologies (!?!).

You guys wanted better than a DDR4 system, but my detailed specs for performances shows one thing very clearly, with MT, you'll need more than a 4080 to avoid a bottleneck because the performances of your CPU is way beyond what a 4080 or RX 7900 XTX can produce, stock.

So at the end of the day, if it's to be limited by the GPU, there is no advantage going for a DDR5 system right now.

 

 

 

Edited June 14, 2023 by Thinder

[Callsign.Vega]

Upgraded my 7950x to 7950x3D and DCS MT is screaming! Running CCD0 at 5250 MHz and CCD1 at 5800 MHz.

[Ce_Zeta]

I am choosing the parts for my new rig. Very interesting thread.

For a 7800X3D paired with a 4090 to move  Meta Quest Pro...

what power supply are you using? 850W? 1000W?

[some1]

I use 850W. It is enough with this CPU.

Edited June 25, 2023 by some1

[Thinder]

4 hours ago, Ce_Zeta said:

I am choosing the parts for my new rig. Very interesting thread.

For a 7800X3D paired with a 4090 to move  Meta Quest Pro...

what power supply are you using? 850W? 1000W?

It depends on the number of SSDs you have, RAM, fans etc.

With a 4090 your Average Gaming Power (W) is 315/450W and that's a minimum depending on the card maker, if you want to upgrade later with more storage space and have some headroom you need to compute the maximum power you'll need from your PSU.

I had a Corsair 850W and had to upgrade to a 1000W because I keep adding stuff in the box, lately  I end up with 6 case fans + 1 CPU fan, one M2 SSD and I still have to mount one extra SATA I removed during the upgrade, it's a lot of power draw. especially because I might mount a CPU water cooler in the future.

So going for the headroom would avoid you to have to sell your 850W in Ebay like I did, have a good look at what your devices need and plan for some headroom.

Edited June 25, 2023 by Thinder

[jaguara5]

Guys, for 2D - 4k gaming, is there a noticeable difference in DCS between a 5600X, 5800x3d, 7800x3d or 13700K or that resolution is heavily gpu dependent? 

Edited June 25, 2023 by jaguara5

[some1]

15 minutes ago, Thinder said:

I keep adding stuff in the box, lately  I end up with 6 case fans + 1 CPU fan, one M2 SSD and I still have to mount one extra SATA I removed during the upgrade, it's a lot of power draw.

It isn't. A fan is a few watts each, SSD around 5 watts, AIO pump maybe around 10W. The rest of the PC simply does not require much power. Even with a lot of peripherals, there's still much headroom on a decent 850W PSU.

14 minutes ago, jaguara5 said:

Guys, for 2D - 4k gaming, is there a noticeable difference in DCS between a 5600X, 5800x3d, 7800x3d or 13700K or that resolution is heavily gpu dependent?

Most of the time I don't think so, maybe with some heavy missions or MP. 

[Thinder]

2 hours ago, jaguara5 said:

Guys, for 2D - 4k gaming, is there a noticeable difference in DCS between a 5600X, 5800x3d, 7800x3d or 13700K or that resolution is heavily gpu dependent? 

 

1) One thing people going DDR5 doesn't realize is that their GPU will not be running differently than a DDR4 system, there isn't a GPU in the market running PCI_E Gen 5 today so they are bandwidth limited to DDR4 standard.

2) at 4K, you'll need maximum bandwidth from your CPU/RAM combination, DDR5 systems use higher frequencies, but it is possible to run a much lower latency with an optimized DDR4 system, a kit of 4 X 8GB Cl14 3200 or 3600MHz works especially well with the 5800x3d which are designed to make use of lower latency, something RAM manufacturers cannot equal with the actual dies with DDR5.

3) I don't test my system at lower resolution than 4K, and all my system is optimized for 4K resolution, I do my tests with heavy environment (Mirage 2000C very low level flying at tree top in the middle of a valley with threes all over ask a lot of redraw from the GPU), no 2D so I'm not sure of the difference but VR/MT, at very high DCS settings, I end up with mid-40s FPS but the play stays smooth thanks to low frame times.

The 5600X wouldn't give me the same performances although it runs slightly faster than the 5800x3d thanks to the combination of cache and low latency RAM kit, the CPU will not throttle down under load which it will do with a Cl16 RAM kit, you must be careful to stay within the capabilities of your CPU controller: 3200MHz (3600MHz with BDie Cl14), 4 ranks.

At 4K you're under load most of the time so if you have more than 4 ranks your CPU will throttle down under load, best combination is 4 X 8GB because those sticks are the only one to posses 1 rank per stick, I tested a 4 X 16GB back to back and the 4 X 8GB was <> 31% faster in average.

Screenshot taken today and as I said, there was no flickering on the sides, the FPS went that low but play stayed smooth, here I was testing my new high airflow fans.

I was recording (AMD software) as well as using Afterburner so you can add 10/12 FPS more to this...

 

  

2 hours ago, some1 said:

It isn't. A fan is a few watts each, SSD around 5 watts, AIO pump maybe around 10W. . 

Wrong.

An high performance pump draw more than 18W and that's not taking into account the extra high airflow fans, 3 X 1,68 W, bringing the total to 7 plus the water cooler own fan, the 990-Pro M2 SSD goes up to 7.8 W, 9 W x 2 for the 970 SATAs, the CPU, 118W, the GPU, 368 to 420W+ (Boost, before and with O.C), 143W for the motherboard, add keyboard, mouse, mobile phone and electric shaver charging, drawing tablet (planned).

You just can't get it right with just "fews" and "maybes", you need to know exactly what your system is consuming, when I mention headroom I know what I'm talking about because I can see what's hanging from my PC USB hubs and I know what I want to add to it.

Edited June 25, 2023 by Thinder

[some1]

That still does not add up to 850, not even close, even assuming the worst case scenario where you somehow manage to load all these parts to 100% at the same time.

A motherboard does not take 143W on its own, where did you get that number?

 

 

 

 

[Thinder]

1 hour ago, some1 said:

That still does not add up to 850, not even close, even assuming the worst case scenario where you somehow manage to load all these parts to 100% at the same time.

Doesn't need to.

You get your figures wrong for a starter, by 50% in the case of an SSD, then I made it clear that I was looking for headroom, which mean that since this PSU will outlast the rest of the system in upgrades only, I'll still have headroom when I complete my next upgrade in a couple of years.

Simple: Power consumption (and thermal radiation meaning more cooling) increased enormously since my previous system: 44.9% on the CPU alone from 5600X to 5800X 3D, 50% on the GPU from EVGA GTX 1080Ti to the RX 7900 XTX, + DDR5 new Mobo, new RAM most probable when DDR5 technology is mature, new CPU, new GPU, I see no reason why I wouldn't need more than 850W if I go for performance increase.

I purchased my RM1000X on Ebay brand new for £90.00 and sold my RM850X for £85.00 and I won't have to upgrade this PSU when I'll have completed my next full PC upgrade.

Edited June 25, 2023 by Thinder

[Callsign.Vega]

5 hours ago, Thinder said:

1) One thing people going DDR5 doesn't realize is that their GPU will not be running differently than a DDR4 system, there isn't a GPU in the market running PCI_E Gen 5 today so they are bandwidth limited to DDR4 standard.

 

System RAM and PCI-E bus speeds have literally nothing to do with one another. 

[some1]

1 hour ago, Thinder said:

 

You're quoting Global System power consumption, it's written right there at the top of the chart. That's total power consumption for the whole test PC they used: motherboard, CPU, RAM, disk, GPU.  If motherboard alone used 143 Watts, then it would require a second active cooling solution the same size as the CPU itself.

So you've counted CPU twice and did all your math wrong.

Do yourself a favor and buy one of these for 10 bucks, you'll be surprised what it shows: 

[Thinder]

14 minutes ago, Callsign.Vega said:

System RAM and PCI-E bus speeds have literally nothing to do with one another. 

Where did I say the opposite? I mention the GPU bandwidth of DDR5 systems, not the DDR5 RAM, the whole point being that today, you can buy a DDR5 system, your GPU will still be limited to PCI_E Gen4, and in the Intel systems you can fit DDR4 or 5.

1 minute ago, some1 said:

So you've counted CPU twice and did all your math wrong.

Say the guy who get M2 SSD power comsumption 50% off. You're finished?

[some1]

I'm off by 3 watts, you're off by 143 watts.

As I said, do the math properly, or even better, measure your PC with a power meter.

[Ce_Zeta]

Thank you very much for the info Gents.

[Thinder]

14 hours ago, some1 said:

I'm off by 3 watts, you're off by 143 watts.

As I said, do the math properly, or even better, measure your PC with a power meter.

Hilarious, so now you CANT read headroom, and for you it doesn't include an upgrade path but you can tell us what will be the power consumption of our next upgrade?

Get yourself an Oxford for your ten bucks, because I made it clear from the start that I made a suggestion based on experience:

Quote

1) Power increase from a generation to the next: 44.9% on the CPU alone from 5600X to 5800X 3D, 50% on the GPU from EVGA GTX 1080Ti to the RX 7900 XTX

2) What I got for £20 of postage going from 850W to a new 1000W: I made it clear that I was looking for headroom, which mean that "since this PSU will outlast the rest of the system in upgrades only, I'll still have headroom when I complete my next upgrade in a couple of years".

And I forgot, I have two M2 SSDs in this system now, even wrote about it in this very forum, damned my math are letting me down...

So Mystic Meg here can tell us what we need now for the next 4 years, next generation power consumption, how much M2 SSDs/SATA we'll need for years of storage... That's cute...

And something else, you really should have read the article before lecturing us on how to comprehend what it says and assume what I wrote, instead of being stupidly confrontational stocked in an assumptive line trying to lecture people of what they need:

>>> I mentioned the motherboard load of 143W, I didn't say it was its own consumption and I'm prertty sure it was the last bit where I gave wattage on this line but eh, it must be my French, meanwhile, the article also mention the fact that with Precision Boost Overdrive enabled, it goes from 143W to 221W, my 5800X 3D doesn't use PBO, just to say...

So apparently you give advises to people while being unable to comprehend what you write yourself and assuming that you know what our next system power consumption will be, Im impressed, btw, all your estimate for power consumption were wrong so you really need your little gadget.

Edited June 26, 2023 by Thinder

[some1]

I give advice to people in this thread, because I actually have a PC with 7800X3D and I can measure the power consumption.

Even with furmark and Prime95 running at the same time, with 6 SSDs, one HDD, 7 fans and multiple USB devices for flightsimming, the thing does not go above 650 watts measured at the wall. Still plenty of headroom even in the worst possible scenario. Normally when gaming it's much less, not even half the PSU capacity.

So yeah, as I wrote before answering Ce_Zeta, for 7800X3D a 850W PSU is more than enough. If it makes you sleep better at night you can even buy a 2 kW PSU, it won't hurt anything else than your wallet.

Edited June 26, 2023 by some1

[BitMaster]

It's not that easy to pinpoint the exact power draw for a motherboard since any power delivery to any device but the GPU_12V cables goes through the board, one or the other way.. Even there, up to 75w for the GPU can be delivered via the board's PCIe slot. Add 4 RAM modules, multiple drives, Southbridge chip, Audio chip, fans, pump, LED ( ok, that's a minor thing ) but it all adds up.

Measure on the wall and deduct CPU and GPU draw, that's how many watts your board distributes to connected or embedded devices.

 

Mine for example idles at 160 watts w/o screen. GPU in idle ~25Watts, CPU ~50w....round about 75watts. That's 85watts for the 15 fans, 1 pump, board power, all attached USB devices.

 

Either way, stay friendly and have fun

Edited June 26, 2023 by BitMaster

[EightyDuce]

On 6/25/2023 at 2:37 AM, Ce_Zeta said:

I am choosing the parts for my new rig. Very interesting thread.

For a 7800X3D paired with a 4090 to move  Meta Quest Pro...

what power supply are you using? 850W? 1000W?

When I get home I'll check my Kill-0-Watt to get you the powerdraw with a 7800X3D and a 4090. 

... As a bonus, I'll do it without digging into my dusty pockets and bringing up a 5800X3D and DDR4 for some irrelevant reason.

[EightyDuce]

917w at the wall plug on the kill-a-watt while benching. 

Thats with everything in the signature + EK-D5 pump, 6x140mm fans, 3X Nvme SSDs. 

Edited June 27, 2023 by EightyDuce
That's at 4090 stock. With undervokted curve it's 823w.

[Ce_Zeta]

Thank you very much EightyDuce.

Edited June 27, 2023 by Ce_Zeta

[some1]

That's a lot @EightyDuce, 300W more than my Pc with similar specs. Is that only the computer, or also including Monitor, and other things you have on the desk?

Edited June 27, 2023 by some1

[Mac D]

On 6/26/2023 at 11:33 AM, some1 said:

I give advice to people in this thread, because I actually have a PC with 7800X3D and I can measure the power consumption.

Even with furmark and Prime95 running at the same time, with 6 SSDs, one HDD, 7 fans and multiple USB devices for flightsimming, the thing does not go above 650 watts measured at the wall. Still plenty of headroom even in the worst possible scenario. Normally when gaming it's much less, not even half the PSU capacity.

So yeah, as I wrote before answering Ce_Zeta, for 7800X3D a 850W PSU is more than enough. If it makes you sleep better at night you can even buy a 2 kW PSU, it won't hurt anything else than your wallet.

 

Bit off-topic :
I've bin using PSU's which have te ability to measure the in and out put wattage for some time now
(Previously a Corsair HX850i and currently a HX1000i for the 7950X3d/RTX 4090 setup)

Just out of curiousity : how "correct" are these kind of PSU with measuring the wattage in comparision to digital power monitor ??

[BitMaster]

They should be very accurate. Done that for years on 3 different Builds but not for this current rig.

..if I could just find this stupid cable to attach my AXi dongle to my USB again...sigh....you can also split the rail and define max Ampere per cable, nice feature.