Track/replay player

[i_am_grk]

Probably there was already topics with same stuff but still.

After dozen of hours flied on servers with friends and saved tracks thought it will be cool to make a short cinematics of our flying and bombing and dogfighting etc etc BUT...
I've watched hours of tutorials of how to play around tracks and stuff and it's a nightmare. Not because it's hard or complicated, but because you will literally waste A LOT of your time doing stuff like playing replays countless times just because theres no rewind option or editing track files to unlock more options for views or even making a new shorter tracks just to record simple things like take offs or landings. Eventually one short video (let's say 90 seconds) could take a week or even more to make when usually it takes a day or two for me (for both capturing and editing footage) when there's a decent replay player.
As an example of decent player I can offer Assetto Corsa replay system. Simple, clear and easy to use. And I don't mind if track/replay will take a gigabyte or two or even more on my hard drive. If something similar was in DCS that could be fantastic.
I love DCS visuals and every time I play it makes me sad that I can't do cinematics just because it will take way to much time to make which I don't really have.

[SharpeXB]

Indeed, a lot of people would like this. I am amazed at the cinematic people are able to do with the current system, it must take a huge amount of work. 

[snowman[FR]]

It's absolutly not a primary worry for eagle dynamics according to tons of negative answers toward this subject.

Helping people creating content on social media and free advertisement isn't that much of a concern for any company you know.

[SharpeXB]

It would still be a better bug tracking tool if it could be edited or rewound to spotlight certain events. 

[Ironhand]

On 2/12/2023 at 9:59 AM, i_am_grk said:

…you will literally waste A LOT of your time doing stuff like playing replays countless times just because theres no rewind option or editing track files to unlock more options for views or even making a new shorter tracks just to record simple things like take offs or landings…

…As an example of decent player I can offer Assetto Corsa replay system. Simple, clear and easy to use. And I don't mind if track/replay will take a gigabyte or two or even more on my hard drive. If something similar was in DCS that could be fantastic…

Unfortunately, unless ED completely scraps the current recording system and creates (or invests) a new one, we are stuck with what we have. Due to its nature, you have to start at the beginning and can leave nothing in between out. 

[Gunfreak]

On 2/12/2023 at 6:13 PM, SharpeXB said:

Indeed, a lot of people would like this. I am amazed at the cinematic people are able to do with the current system, it must take a huge amount of work. 

I made a F14 cinematic, most of it was done just filming the AI "live" but AI don't do low level flying. So I had to fly a bit. And the F14 is by far the worst when it comes to tracks. 

So even tho I did just 60 seconds flights for some low level snips.

3 out of 4 tracks couldn't manage 30 seconds without the plane crashing the ground  

[SharpeXB]

Again even as a bug tracking tool the track replay is pointless because it won't repeat the action you just played, it will just show you flying into the ground for example.

[Ironhand]

38 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

Again even as a bug tracking tool the track replay is pointless because it won't repeat the action you just played, it will just show you flying into the ground for example.

Often not correct. But it does show them every action you took, at a minimum, when they read it. And, since they ask for a TRK recording the bug with every bug report, they obviously can get information they need often enough.

Edited February 20, 2023 by Ironhand

[SharpeXB]

19 minutes ago, Ironhand said:

Often not correct. But it does show them every action you took, at a minimum, when they read it. And, since they ask for a TRK recording the bug with every bug report, they obviously can get information they need often enough.

 

I can’t imagine how it shows them the right info. For example if my aircraft crashes into the ground long before the bug occurs. In that case the track seems useless. 

[razo+r]

1 hour ago, SharpeXB said:

I can’t imagine how it shows them the right info. For example if my aircraft crashes into the ground long before the bug occurs. In that case the track seems useless. 

That is why they often request short tracks that show the issue long before the desync happens. 

[SharpeXB]

15 minutes ago, razo+r said:

That is why they often request short tracks that show the issue long before the desync happens. 

Well there are problems which come up in longer sessions. The track replay isn’t useful for those. 

[Ironhand]

2 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

I can’t imagine how it shows them the right info. For example if my aircraft crashes into the ground long before the bug occurs. In that case the track seems useless. 

Regardless of how it plays back, every action you took is still recorded. There's a record of every asset (AI or static) in the mission along with their attributes. There's a record of any mod involved, etc. So it still shows them a lot of info. An incorrect playback doesn't necessarily negate its usefulness. And who says that they can only watch it?

Edited February 20, 2023 by Ironhand

[SharpeXB]

59 minutes ago, Ironhand said:

Regardless of how it plays back, every action you took is still recorded.

How is the replay recording actions after I crashed (in error) and the flight ended?

[Ironhand]

1 hour ago, SharpeXB said:

How is the replay recording actions after I crashed (in error) and the flight ended?

Seriously? Please reread what you wrote.

Because, as I said, all of your inputs as well as all of the mission particulars are recorded in the track file, assuming you crash during the playback and not during the recording. Again you’re assuming that they can only watch it.

Edited February 20, 2023 by Ironhand

[SharpeXB]

3 hours ago, Ironhand said:

Seriously? Please reread what you wrote.

Because, as I said, all of your inputs as well as all of the mission particulars are recorded in the track file, assuming you crash during the playback and not during the recording. Again you’re assuming that they can only watch it.

 

I see what you’re saying. Maybe… No matter what I see in the replay my actual flight continued on in the track?  But the whole thing just seems broken and I can’t imagine it’s accurate at all. Clearly it’s useful to watch the track sometimes I’m sure. Sometimes I need to be able to go back and check the track to see if it was the right one. Which of course I can’t do. 
 

Another thing that’s broken in the replay is that the mouse cursor doesn’t appear in the correct position, at least when recording in 2160x3840, I don’t know about other resolutions. That doesn’t make tracks very useful for instruction or discerning what somebody is doing in the cockpit. 

Edited February 20, 2023 by SharpeXB

[Ironhand]

15 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

...That doesn’t make tracks very useful for instruction or discerning what somebody is doing in the cockpit. 

In that regard, you are absolutely correct. Even when they were 99% accurate in the early days, they broke with every update--which back then were far less frequent. But for debugging, the TRKs can have value which is a different issue altogether. They may not provide the needed information for debugging in all situations. But they can provide useful information in other instances whether they play back correctly or not.

EDIT:

Quote

I see what you’re saying. Maybe… No matter what I see in the replay my actual flight continued on in the track?

Yes. I once set up a mission with only my aircraft to fly a series of touch and goes. Took off, ran the circuit 5 times, landed and parked the final time. Played the TRK and it showed me landing short and crashing on the first circuit. Reflew it making only one circuit. The 2nd TRK file was much smaller than the first.

Edited February 21, 2023 by Ironhand

[Tweety777]

On 2/21/2023 at 5:00 AM, Ironhand said:

EDIT:

Yes. I once set up a mission with only my aircraft to fly a series of touch and goes. Took off, ran the circuit 5 times, landed and parked the final time. Played the TRK and it showed me landing short and crashing on the first circuit. Reflew it making only one circuit. The 2nd TRK file was much smaller than the first.

 

I have this issue with all replay files I tried. I was spireling out of control in the F14, crashing it into the sea fully Maverick style, but the replay file shows nothing a nice slow glide into the ocean. Before that in the same replay I was dogfighting, banking left and right, climbing and diving down. Again, nothing of it all is shown in the replay. Only a spiral a few kilometers wide loosing about some hundred feet every perfect circle it shows. Is there something I'm doing wrong? I only started playing DCS a couple of weeks ago and I'm trying to learn from my mistakes using the replay files. Tacview is also a helpful tool though I'd like to be able to see what I saw in game with in game graphics (still having trouble finding other planes in the huge DCS skies).

 

Thanks for the help.

[Ironhand]

20 minutes ago, Tweety777 said:

…Is there something I'm doing wrong?…

Unfortunately, no. Over the years, replay has become worse and worse. And it’s my impression that it’s more of an issue with 3rd party aircraft than ED aircraft and more of an issue with more complex aircraft than simpler aircraft, and more of an issue with complex missions than simple ones…in that order. Also tracks made online suffer more than single player.

All that being said, my tracks play back correctly more often than not simply because I fly mostly single player in FC3 aircraft. My aircraft of choice would change, if we ever got a full fidelity Su-27 or MiG-29 but I fear I’ll either be in my grave or well into senility before either of those things happen.

One thing you can try is to restart DCS before you play the track. Sometimes that seems to help.

[Tweety777]

17 minutes ago, Ironhand said:

Unfortunately, no. Over the years, replay has become worse and worse. And it’s my impression that it’s more of an issue with 3rd party aircraft than ED aircraft and more of an issue with more complex aircraft than simpler aircraft, and more of an issue with complex missions than simple ones…in that order. Also tracks made online suffer more than single player.

All that being said, my tracks play back correctly more often than not simply because I fly mostly single player in FC3 aircraft. My aircraft of choice would change, if we ever got a full fidelity Su-27 or MiG-29 but I fear I’ll either be in my grave or well into senility before either of those things happen.

One thing you can try is to restart DCS before you play the track. Sometimes that seems to help.

Good to hear it's not my fault. Just played to missions in the F14 (the BFM training against F5), in the first I hit before passing each other. I played it back in Tacview, but there I saw my shots miss by about the wingspan of the F5. The end result (that first hit somehow ending up being the killing shot) also was not visible in Tacview since I crash into the ocean after seeing the F5 destroyed message in game and the F5 ending up in the sky. I guys I now learn to fly the F14 that my own eyes are more trustworthy than the replays.

 

I'll try restarting, let's see if it helps for me too.

[trevoC]

yeah, its a real shame.

Any DCS video I've made, I've used nVidia screen recording to record it live while I fly. Capture straight to disk and use external views while flying.

I'd be happy if they just let you change views on a track.

I've flown hundreds of campaign missions and (stupidly) saved every one of those track files in hopes that they will be useful one day for me to replay and watch from an external view.

Its easy enough to fly (instant action) and use external views to catch footage, but no one is thinking about capturing footage during a mission when crap is hitting the fan. Would love to see some of the external views in those missions.

IMHO, a good replay system for DCS would do more for their marketing than anything else as people would be creating more and more content for youtube which is essentially free marketing for DCS. I'm not trying to convince anyone, but your best marketing is the users direct marketing via social media.