Vikhr full loadout

[daykinmade]

is there a way you could have Vikhrs loaded on both your inboard and outboard hardpoints? I would much prefer this to rockets (they suck)

[CyBerkut]

I don't know. I'm not sure that I would want to go that route (all Vikhrs) in light of the reported laser problems/limitations...

[GGTharos]

No, there is no way to do so.

[ARM505]

The moveable mountings and electrical connections required for the Vikhr's are not present on the inboard mounts.

[Sunjah]

I had wished for this, also. Those rockets are just hard to use. I have begun to go with extra maching gun turrets, but am not sure they are better than rockets.

 

I need more practice with the rockets, that's for sure!

[Boberro]

Gentlemen, if Kamov didn't provide support for inboard hardpoints it can't be done (changed) without saying it would be cheat.

 

Rockets aren't bad...

 

Try use it, training would be helpful :)

[McVittees]

I have to agree that the rockets (well S-8's anyway) s-u-c-k! :) Far to hard for me to aim and then don't do much unless you score a direct hit! Look way cool though...

 

Seriously though - is there anything an S-8 can do that your 30mm can't do better? I leave the inner pylons clean and save the wieight.

[AlphaInfinity]

With the unguided rockets, I have found that changing the firing mode helps so that you unload 50% at once. I have a better chance of hitting targets that way. The downside is that you can only fire twice! :)

[daykinmade]

thanks all, I would certainly like to hear any more tips you guys have on how to use rockets to better effect.

[McVittees]

thanks all, I would certainly like to hear any more tips you guys have on how to use rockets to better effect.

 

Like I said, leave them at home and make a bonfire with them. Much better effect.:P

[GGTharos]

Rockets are meant to cause damage to lightly armored vehicles and personnel via application of shrapnel; they are a strafing/airborne artillery weapon, not some sort of surgical precision weapon.

 

While you might not feel like your butt's on fire in the sim, in reality they will give you better results against spread out infantry or light installations than the 30mm in one pass. Again, you're not feeling the fire under your butt as a sim pilot. However as a real life pilot you would value your life; you'd want to be there a shorter time (did I mention fuel is usually not a consideration for sim pilots either, so they can sit there in a hover forever to train their gun on target?) and if at all possible, not fly over the enemy, so your chances of being missed by flying chunks of metal would be much better.

 

How would you do this? You'd run straight in from 4km, aim your rockets, and launch the salvo from 3km (max range). Then you'd turn around and go somewhere else, popping flares/other CMs all the way.

 

As a sim pilot, I'm sure you're willing to just go head to head at 5m against that AK toting dude ;)

[DragonRR]

As a sim pilot, I'm sure you're willing to just go head to head at 5m against that AK toting dude ;)

 

Hmmm yes.. :) And BMPs, Tanks, SAMs.. you name it.. 5m max :music_whistling:

[GGTharos]

5m gun duel ... set your 30mm's .... GO! :D

[fox_111]

5m duel guilty. I'm quite an arroguant pilot sometime. Circling my target and looking at it my angry eyes while I play with it like a cat with a mouse.

 

especially since I found that AK round don't really hurt the shark, even after multime full auto burst.

 

In real life, I'd be keeping my distances.

[Sunjah]

Rockets are meant to cause damage to lightly armored vehicles and personnel via application of shrapnel; they are a strafing/airborne artillery weapon, not some sort of surgical precision weapon.

 

While you might not feel like your butt's on fire in the sim, in reality they will give you better results against spread out infantry or light installations than the 30mm in one pass. Again, you're not feeling the fire under your butt as a sim pilot. However as a real life pilot you would value your life; you'd want to be there a shorter time (did I mention fuel is usually not a consideration for sim pilots either, so they can sit there in a hover forever to train their gun on target?) and if at all possible, not fly over the enemy, so your chances of being missed by flying chunks of metal would be much better.

 

How would you do this? You'd run straight in from 4km, aim your rockets, and launch the salvo from 3km (max range). Then you'd turn around and go somewhere else, popping flares/other CMs all the way.

 

As a sim pilot, I'm sure you're willing to just go head to head at 5m against that AK toting dude ;)

 

Okay, I must admit that I think you are definitely right. My problem is that this vehicle is so sensitive (and sometimes so twitchy) that against dummy targets I feel like I can take the time to set up a "strafing run" using the rockets. In the heat of combat, though, they really worry me.

 

If I'm in hover, or say I'm hiding and float up over my obstruction with the intent of killing the guys on the other side out in the battle field, I then have to nose (way) down to aim it near them with rockets. Of course, I am then in forward flight, though I don't really want to be charging in there.

 

I know it isn't this way, but it would be soooooo nice to tilt the helicopter enough to shoot (but not have forward movement), or have the pylons tilt just slightly so I could line up good shots. It just kind of seems like a waste of an ammo spot to me (though I'll be the first to admit I need practice with them).

 

I just don't remember unguided rockets being this hard in any of my old Gunship games (Gunship, Longbow, Longbow 2, etc.). Then again, I don't remember having my helicopter do a barrel-role simply because I pulled to the left. Again, I know I need more practice, but this thing is sooooo sensitive...:joystick:

[GGTharos]

Okay, I must admit that I think you are definitely right. My problem is that this vehicle is so sensitive (and sometimes so twitchy) that against dummy targets I feel like I can take the time to set up a "strafing run" using the rockets. In the heat of combat, though, they really worry me.

 

This is all about set-up. You set yourself up to make that strafing run, or accept the resulting inaccuracy. You can actually practice so that your rocket run alignments come faster, but you should still set up.

The proper way to conduct any attack is to take your spacing, run in, fire, take your spacing, repeat if necessary, preferably from another direction, or by a follow-up aircraft.

 

If I'm in hover, or say I'm hiding and float up over my obstruction with the intent of killing the guys on the other side out in the battle field, I then have to nose (way) down to aim it near them with rockets. Of course, I am then in forward flight, though I don't really want to be charging in there.

 

Again, this is set-up. Either know what you have to do after that bob-up, or get spacing, or at the least and most importantly make sure you don't have to pitch down so hard after. I personally dislike attacking from places with a large altitude difference compared to the target.

 

I know it isn't this way, but it would be soooooo nice to tilt the helicopter enough to shoot (but not have forward movement), or have the pylons tilt just slightly so I could line up good shots. It just kind of seems like a waste of an ammo spot to me (though I'll be the first to admit I need practice with them).

 

The Apache's pylons tilt. However the fact remains that despite this, the rocket is still a strafing/artillery weapon. You WANT to be moving because at least in theory the enemy wants to be shooting the stationary, easy to hit you. So practice your set-up and your run-in.

 

I just don't remember unguided rockets being this hard in any of my old Gunship games (Gunship, Longbow, Longbow 2, etc.). Then again, I don't remember having my helicopter do a barrel-role simply because I pulled to the left. Again, I know I need more practice, but this thing is sooooo sensitive...:joystick:

 

That's because the rockets in those games didn't fly. They just sort of went straight like lasers - right to the death dot. The rockets in Black Shark have an actual flight model, and they are very much as hard/easy to use as the real thing.

 

You will notice when you have a steady hand, and you're 'taking it easy', things work well and you hit your target. You need those conditions in the 'heat of battle' which is exactly why you need spacing, set up, and your buddy over-watching you to alert you to anything that's being thrown at you.

[kaiserb_uk]

I too am having the most problems with rockets. I ran the weapon training tutorial again and noted that Wags quotes the max range as being 2km, this then seemed to be verified by the launch authorisation appearing at about 2km.

 

When you say max range is 3km, are you referring to the big rockets?

 

Also I've heard mention of a 'ballistics mode' switch (on the right rear panel?), does anyone know what this does?

[GGTharos]

Could be 2-3, I just tend to keep my eye on the 'clock' for my launch cue.

 

The right rear panel has a knob with which you can select the ballistic properties according to the weapon you're launching. This basically changes based on the rocket/warhead, and you have to set it manually if you're loading up different ammunition in the game. When you start the game, it is pre-set to the correct position if you have rockets loaded.

 

I suggest if you have problems with rockets, that you start practicing a very straight approach to the target - very stable, and stabilize your pipper on the target, ready to fire.

 

Do this from well outside the max range of the rockets so that you can launch'em at the max range mark.

[uhoh7]

What is the convergence range for rockets and can this be adjusted?

[MBot]

The key to achieve good results with rockets and guns is the track-shoot-track technique. Do not wander your pipper across the target and fire once it is on top of it. Rather place your pipper on target, stabilize it there, shoot and actively keep it on target until your salvo is complete. This technique worked great for those 1.5 NM gun-kills with the A-10 in Lock On and should be valuable for DCS: A-10 aswell.

[Sunjah]

...

 

That's because the rockets in those games didn't fly. They just sort of went straight like lasers - right to the death dot. The rockets in Black Shark have an actual flight model, and they are very much as hard/easy to use as the real thing.

 

You will notice when you have a steady hand, and you're 'taking it easy', things work well and you hit your target. You need those conditions in the 'heat of battle' which is exactly why you need spacing, set up, and your buddy over-watching you to alert you to anything that's being thrown at you.

 

 

Wow, that is all good information. I highlighted the last part because I didn't realize that about these rockets flying and the older ones not doing so. Makes sense as to why they were "easier" (maybe dumbed-down is better) to use and be accurate with off-the-bat.

 

Practice, practice, practice...and I need rocket practice.

 

Thanks, again!

Edited January 28, 2009 by Sunjah

[GGTharos]

What is the convergence range for rockets and can this be adjusted?

 

AFAIK, the convergence is infinity and you cannot adjust this.

 

To Sunjah: To follow up what MBot said and what I meant to say, but forgot to; by saying the rockets have a flight model, I am trying to say that, if your nose is drifting (pitch/bank/yaw, or sideways flight) and consequently your pipper is drifting, you will impart this motion to your rockets as they are launched, and for this reason you will introduce an aiming error.

 

So what MBot is saying is exactly right.

[Yellonet]

While we're on the rockets subject, is shrapnel, blast radius and shock waves accounted for? I think I remember being told that they aren't, that would explain the rockets lack of "bite" even against softer targets.

[GGTharos]

Nope, at least not as well as they could be - but them's the breaks. Hopefuly ED will be able to come up with a better weapons damage/effects model in that respect in the future.

[MBot]

Shrapnel and blast radius is not done very well at the moment. I have been experimenting with triggering artillery strikes against hovering helicopters. A 155mm shell going off right next to you will be logged as a hit but not do any noticeable damage. Though I have to say that the weapon effects are on a suitable level for what DCS currently is. Once the infantry aspect and suppression get more important, this can be developed further. Also for the A-10, the shrapnel of own bombs should be a important consideration. What was the rule of thumb for the Mk-82 again, 3000ft vertical and horizontal separation?