skypirate Posted January 29, 2009 Posted January 29, 2009 Well, after several weeks of flying by the book I decided to go for a "WHAT IF" flight. Loaded one of the training missions and after some warm up around the airfield tried and managed to pull a loop (AP channels OFF, FD ON). Then again, and again and several other crazy stuff... So I was wondering whether this is really possible (or it's just induced by the training mission) and if yes does this has a practical use during combat missions?... 1 [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]Regards!
Shrubbo Posted January 29, 2009 Posted January 29, 2009 I will answer the question in 2 parts.... A: Yes it is possible. B: I wouldn't have a clue but probably make good shooting :D 1 i9-9900K,Z390 Aorus Master, 32GB GSkill Trident F4-3600 DDR4, ROG Strix RTX 2080 Ti, Oculus Rift S. Thrustmaster Warthog T&S, TPR Pedals.
Pfadfinder Posted January 29, 2009 Posted January 29, 2009 So I was wondering whether this is really possible (or it's just induced by the training mission) and if yes does this has a practical use during combat missions?... As Shrubbo said yes it is possible (the Bo-105 was the first chopper which could perform a looping btw) but it has absolut no practical use, but it looks cool and thats what counts:D 1 Lt. Jake Grafton: "Fighter pukes make movies. Bomber pilots make... HISTORY!"
Nayles Posted January 29, 2009 Posted January 29, 2009 (AP channels OFF, FD ON) Does FD have any effect if the AP channels are off? Must admit I've never tried it.
Tigrom Posted January 29, 2009 Posted January 29, 2009 As Shrubbo said yes it is possible (the Bo-105 was the first chopper which could perform a looping btw) but it has absolut no practical use, but it looks cool and thats what counts:D 2 words. Sikorsky S-52. I think some nutter test pilot did a loop in one of those back in the early 50's? There are a lot of helicopters that can perform a loop however I personally can think of no reason to use it in combat, but as pfadfinder said, it looks cool as hell and is great at airshows and firepower demo's etc.
Maverick-GER- Posted January 29, 2009 Posted January 29, 2009 (edited) (AP channels OFF, FD ON) WTF?? People still didnt get how Autopilot and Flight director works??? You need your AP channels ON and FD ON to have a "dampened Flight" (which means your flight director will dampen your flight controls for the selcted AP channels) (for example you got heading hold on... then without flight director you would have to trim for a new heading all the time or you would have to fight the autopilot... but if you turn on flight director you dont need to trim for a new heading and you dont need to fight the autopilot but the autopilot will still stabilize a bit) So as far as i know if you dont have any AP channels selected then Flight Director is useless! But if you dont have AP channels on, you can leave FD off too! Edited January 29, 2009 by Maverick-GER- [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] F-14 Tomcat Rest in Peace (and hopefully get reborn in DCS!) (Dream came true about 10 years later, now the Apache please :lol:)
GGTharos Posted January 29, 2009 Posted January 29, 2009 (AP channels OFF, You're doing it wrong. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
ericinexile Posted January 29, 2009 Posted January 29, 2009 AP channels OFF isn't wrong. But combining it with the FD ON is. The FD is doing nothing but providing nuisance HUD guidance in this configuration. AP channels are a personal preference but I think he would find his flying to be more precise with AP ON and FD ON. Smokin' Hole My DCS wish list: Su25, Su30, Mi24, AH1, F/A-18C, Afghanistan ...and frankly, the flight sim world should stop at 1995.
GGTharos Posted January 29, 2009 Posted January 29, 2009 Yes, AP channels IS WRONG. It is prohibited to fly with AP channels off ;) Period, end of story. That is, if you want to do it the way the real guys do it. There's no personal preference, they are mandated ON for anything but emergencies. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
-sulan- Posted January 29, 2009 Posted January 29, 2009 Yes, AP channels IS WRONG. It is prohibited to fly with AP channels off ;) Period, end of story. That is, if you want to do it the way the real guys do it. There's no personal preference, they are mandated ON for anything but emergencies. Even when practicing loops for airshows?? :P Anyway, interesting!! I'll see if the help of the FD makes me aim rockets better when I get home :D I've had hell trimming with this wrist-twist, twist-grip...
GGTharos Posted January 29, 2009 Posted January 29, 2009 As far as I know, you're not allowed to turn off the AP channels IRL for any reason other than autopilot/DNS system failure. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
Shrubbo Posted January 30, 2009 Posted January 30, 2009 Yes, AP channels IS WRONG. It is prohibited to fly with AP channels off ;) Period, end of story. That is, if you want to do it the way the real guys do it. There's no personal preference, they are mandated ON for anything but emergencies. So that is why I get such a thrill turning the things off every single time I get "in" the thing. Shrubbo lives for teh wrong of it all and thumbs his noes at the establishment. :D i9-9900K,Z390 Aorus Master, 32GB GSkill Trident F4-3600 DDR4, ROG Strix RTX 2080 Ti, Oculus Rift S. Thrustmaster Warthog T&S, TPR Pedals.
GGTharos Posted January 30, 2009 Posted January 30, 2009 It's your simulator ... RL you'd be getting kicked out of the establishment. ;) So that is why I get such a thrill turning the things off every single time I get "in" the thing. Shrubbo lives for teh wrong of it all and thumbs his noes at the establishment. :D [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
Shrubbo Posted January 30, 2009 Posted January 30, 2009 Heh kicked out!??! I would not have made it in to start with :D i9-9900K,Z390 Aorus Master, 32GB GSkill Trident F4-3600 DDR4, ROG Strix RTX 2080 Ti, Oculus Rift S. Thrustmaster Warthog T&S, TPR Pedals.
ericinexile Posted January 30, 2009 Posted January 30, 2009 Yes, AP channels IS WRONG. It is prohibited to fly with AP channels off ;) Period, end of story. That is, if you want to do it the way the real guys do it. There's no personal preference, they are mandated ON for anything but emergencies. No I get that. But doing loops isn't personal preference either. And this thread isn't about properly employing the Black Shark as a weapon. This thread is about doing things that a "line" pilot would never be allowed to do with Russian taxpayers' money. But we can do it virtually because its a game. When you said it's "wrong" I just thought that was a bit strong. Is it technically correct? No. Should you try it? I think he should because he will learn why the Black Shark behaves the way it does. The learning process that Real Ka50 pilots is available to few DCS players. Experimentation is the only way to gain a glimmer of that knowledge. Smokin' Hole My DCS wish list: Su25, Su30, Mi24, AH1, F/A-18C, Afghanistan ...and frankly, the flight sim world should stop at 1995.
Frazer Posted January 30, 2009 Posted January 30, 2009 Since I'm not that much of a combat person, I went through "what if" right after I got BS in my hands. Here is the result. Here is some of my inspiration (no Ka-50 though) Helicopter Aerobatics: Combat Helicopters And the Bo-105 (amazing what you can do with this chopper!) Helicopter Aerobatics (Bo-105) Forum | Videos | DCS:BS Demo1 / Demo2 | YouTube Channel [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Reticuli Posted January 31, 2009 Posted January 31, 2009 Having the hold channels all off when flight director is on not only negates flight director, but is just going to make the flight performance very squirly and wobbly, even beyond what Blackshark normally does. It certainly isn't going to make a loop easier. X65 and X52, Glide, Winx3D, and GlovePIE Profiles http://library.avsim.net/search.php?SearchTerm=reticuli&CatID=miscmisc http://library.avsim.net/register.php X52 + Silicone Grease = JOY stick
Cichlidash Posted February 1, 2009 Posted February 1, 2009 http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=4RITbQHLLhU&feature=related It would seem the KA-50 can loop just fine.
Frazer Posted February 1, 2009 Posted February 1, 2009 Most likely, every helicopter can loop or do a barrel roll. I've never seen a hind doing a loop, but i'm pretty sure it can. Forum | Videos | DCS:BS Demo1 / Demo2 | YouTube Channel [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
haigotron Posted February 1, 2009 Posted February 1, 2009 maybe you can do an orthogonal roll, next time a Sidewinder is tracking you! :P
Zorrin Posted February 1, 2009 Posted February 1, 2009 Don't forget that whether or not a helicopter can loop is all down to the type of rotor system it has. Try it in an R22 with a teetering rotor system and you'll be brown bread before you can say ouch. The Bo-105 used a rigid rotor, and the factory pilots used to loop them all the time, until one of them killed themselves doing it... Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
skypirate Posted February 2, 2009 Author Posted February 2, 2009 Alright... Nice discussion. Just to make one thing clear - regarding the AP channels what is wrong and right outside of the army fence and inside the virtual world is a matter of personal preference. Normally one can't fly the shark with the AP channels off BUT I found out that with the AP channels off the loop is smoother... And keeping the FD on gives me a visual reference in the HUD where is my trim point at the moment. .... Whatever.... I think the video "Best single seat attack helicopter" answers my question about the real loop capabilities. The other one whether this can be used as a combat maneuver remains open. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]Regards!
Zorrin Posted February 2, 2009 Posted February 2, 2009 whether this can be used as a combat maneuver remains open. Well... Why would you be using a loop as a combat manoeuvre? Yes perhaps in a dogfight but realistically in an attack helicopter a full on loop would be a nice way to get shot and dead. Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
Shrubbo Posted February 2, 2009 Posted February 2, 2009 Well... Why would you be using a loop as a combat manoeuvre? Yes perhaps in a dogfight but realistically in an attack helicopter a full on loop would be a nice way to get shot and dead. No way man, I seen it in Airwolf once that the dude totally pwned the bad guy doing a loop and stuff 'cause helicopters can't do loops so they were caught by surprise yeah!! :thumbup: I am mortified that I remember that crap :huh: i9-9900K,Z390 Aorus Master, 32GB GSkill Trident F4-3600 DDR4, ROG Strix RTX 2080 Ti, Oculus Rift S. Thrustmaster Warthog T&S, TPR Pedals.
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