Winwing Orion 2 Throttle: Axis failure

[Cgjunk2]

Hello all,

Has anybody buying winwing Orion 2 throttles in recent months been having problems with the throttle axes failing?   I bought my Orion 2 stick and throttle combo (F16 grip, F/18 throttle) towards the end of November 2022.  I had been using my original MS Sidewinder stick for long enough (probably since the late 1990s lol), so I decided to jump in to winwing for my first "real" hotas.  .   Unfortunately, my first throttle lasted about a month before the left axis failed.  The Simapp pro software showed no movement of the axis.   Through their chat support, I took it it apart and did their prescribed diagnostic tests (calibrating, swapping cables, and swapping positions of cable inputs at the motherboard).  All tests showed the signal was not being read at the motherboard.    Winwing said they would send me a new throttle base, after I paid to return ship the old one.   I decided to sleep on it because I had not yet decided if I was going to spend 120 dollars to ship mine back, or just call this a "learned lesson" about buying direct without the benefits of an importer.   I continued to use the one remaining axis, but after a few more hours of use, the left throttle axis failed in a similar fashion.  So I sent it back.

I received my new replacement base pretty quickly, but after only a few days, I  had an essentially identical failure of the right throttle axis.   Dead as a door nail, as read on Simapp pro.  I knew the drill, go to chat support again....But after the long hours of going through the chat support process and diagnostic work, I was just tired, and didnt have the time to go through the disassembly and picture/video posting routine.  I had one working throttle axis, so maybe I'm destined to only have one throttle axis lol.  

Well, today, I finally had some time and went through their trouble shooting document, which again consisted of swapping cables from left to right, testing, and crossing inputs at the motherboard.  Just like the first time, the both cables show the ability to pass a signal from the hall sensors to the mother board as long as it is connected to the left motherboard socket.  But the socket at the motherboard for the right axis is not able to pass any signal to simapp pro.  

Being that this is my third axis to fail in two units, I've got to wonder if there has been a manufacturing problems that has gotten through.  

As for me, I just now let winwing know the results, but honestly, I can't spend another $120 dollars on shipping (I'm assuming their response will be similar to the first time...they send out a new one, and I pay to send mine back)

I had looked at Virpil, but the prices were eyewatering.   Before buying winwing, I figured it was gamble, but where odds were probably in my favor, even if I had to ship things back once.   It doesnt look like it payed off for me, but it's not a total loss.  At least I have one functioning throttle axis (still) and I really like the Orion2 joystick, which is functioning well and feels great.    I figured I would post this because it helps others, who like me, were trying to weigh the odds of going Winwing, vs other manufacturers.  

[Laidback]

This is what I didn't want to read.  I was just looking at that throttle the other day and thinking about getting it.  Looks like someone else was having that same issue.

 

 

[Xthedarkknight99x]

I've had my throttle for 8 months with the only issue being sim app likes to ignore it. All buttons work in windows so I don't think much about it.

I hope winwing can take care of you. The lackluster support seems to drive people to suggest virpil. 

[Draken35]

I just had an issue with my F/A18 throttle grip. One of the buttons stopped working... Went through the whole support thing with videos and finally the asked for my order number. They told me that it was out of warranty and quoted a price... The throttle and grip were purchased last July. I had to send them screenshots of their systems and finally, they recognized their mistake and sent me the replacement button, free of charge...

Now, the connectors inside the grip are glued... So I either  take the risk of doing myself or pay for a professional to do it...

Yes, Winwing prices are nice but the support/repair based in China (expensive shipment & language barriers) is something to consider ...

 

[Cgjunk2]

3 hours ago, Xthedarkknight99x said:

I've had my throttle for 8 months with the only issue being sim app likes to ignore it. All buttons work in windows so I don't think much about it.

I hope winwing can take care of you. The lackluster support seems to drive people to suggest virpil. 

It's been mentioned by others that nothing is perfect, and these types of peripherals can have their issues, no matter the brand.  Not only that, but the low volume nature of the products, and price competition, result in a DIY support model.  As far as I understand, even Thrustmaster is like this with regard to support.    I recognized that going in, and I generally don't mind taking things apart, but was hoping for better luck.  It's the multiple failures, in a similar fashion that led to me wondering if this is a larger problem.  And of course, the fact we are talking about the axes is a big deal because I bought them primarily because  I wanted "throttle" two things at once...using axes .

So assuming that Winwing offers to replace it if I pay for shipping my defective unit back, that means I would be around 240 dollars above my original 520 out the door price.  That's mighty close to paying for a product with an importer (now I understand an importers role in this whole deal lol).  

As far as I understand, there's only one high-end peripheral importer in the US.   I'm sure they are not perfect either, but accepting a 30 dollar return shipping fee is much more palatable lol.   For competition's and customer's sake, I wish the US had more options in this area.  

 

Edited March 15, 2023 by Cgjunk2

[Apone]

Damn - just bought one of these after a lot of looking and waiting to be sure the things were reliable.  I was fine paying Virpil prices and this was not a money play.  I genuinely like the "made for DCS" look and feel of these.  VKB would have been great too if in stock.  Paying to send back to China over and over is a non-starter.  Very disheartening to hear.  They arrive in 2 days... 

[rob10]

Could you get a faulty device?  Sure, obviously some people have.  Realize that when the WinWing devices came out they sold very well and at least some went to a sold out position.  So it's likely there are a fair number of them out there.  And yes there are breakdowns, but my guess (and I have no way to quantify it) is that the odds of it breaking are pretty low.  I've had the original Orion throttle since it was 1st available and (touch wood) haven't had any issues with it.  My Thrustmaster F-18 grip has an issue with the 2nd position of the trigger.  Crap happens.

[MustangSally]

3 hours ago, Apone said:

Damn - just bought one of these after a lot of looking and waiting to be sure the things were reliable.  I was fine paying Virpil prices and this was not a money play.  I genuinely like the "made for DCS" look and feel of these.  VKB would have been great too if in stock.  Paying to send back to China over and over is a non-starter.  Very disheartening to hear.  They arrive in 2 days... 

Stuff happens. Its consumer quality, not aircraft quality! I've had all and I mean all of the WW gear since inception and have had zero issues.

[Cgjunk2]

21 hours ago, MustangSally said:

Stuff happens. Its consumer quality, not aircraft quality! I've had all and I mean all of the WW gear since inception and have had zero issues.

Stuff happens for sure.  Even though there is the issues I've had, you'd be forgiven for thinking they are aircraft quality.  I think the construction of the stick strikes a fine balance between manufacturability (nothing is perfectly polished, but good castings and bearing surfaces), the feeling/look of substantial heft, and a solid overal design.   The throttle almost matches the physical feel, if not for the plastic case. That said, I wouldn't necessarily say a plastic case is bad, especially mounted.   The actual mechanical aspect of the throttle is pretty cool to look at as well.   The f18 grips are solid feeling as well, just like the stick.   The first thing I thought was that these are great for serviceability if anything ever went wrong with switches or small boards...  It just sucks that what's breaking on my throttles is the main motherboard itself, which the largest piece and hardest to replace if it I ever had to replace only that in the future. 

 

On 3/14/2023 at 10:34 PM, Apone said:

Damn - just bought one of these after a lot of looking and waiting to be sure the things were reliable.  I was fine paying Virpil prices and this was not a money play.  I genuinely like the "made for DCS" look and feel of these.  VKB would have been great too if in stock.  Paying to send back to China over and over is a non-starter.  Very disheartening to hear.  They arrive in 2 days... 

 

The die is cast, no use worrying about it.  Hopefully my issues don't represent a larger problem in their manufacture of the Orion2 throttle base itself.  Like I said, if you have to pony up for shipping once, you're still ahead of the game. 

[Dogmanbird]

Be careful of the honeycomb looking parts that connect the cast throttle arms to the grips. It's prone to snapping if aggressively throttling back and forth, hitting the stops, such as flying space combat games. They have also been snapped by people accidentally pushing the grips sideways with their feet or leg while climbing in and out of their setups 

People have found suitable replacement springs for the joystick bases on ebay once they snap.  

Edited March 27, 2023 by Dogmanbird

[Cgjunk2]

I forgot to update this thread, but customer support responded to me regarding the testing results.  Apparently they forwarded the concerns to an engineer and I was told they would be sending me a new one!   Based on when they told me, it hopefully will be sent out soon.  
 

I’ll update the thread once I get it and put a bit of time on it.  

Can’t wait to fire up the Su27 and start doing some cobras with differential thrust at the top lol.  I was just starting to get good at throwing that airplane around when I got relegated to single axis by the failures.

On 3/27/2023 at 8:04 AM, Dogmanbird said:

Be careful of the honeycomb looking parts that connect the cast throttle arms to the grips. It's prone to snapping if aggressively throttling back and forth, hitting the stops, such as flying space combat games. They have also been snapped by people accidentally pushing the grips sideways with their feet or leg while climbing in and out of their setups 

People have found suitable replacement springs for the joystick bases on ebay once they snap.  

 

Thanks for the heads up!  I’ve removed and installed those honeycomb adapters at least 6 different times in my troubleshooting efforts (they need to come off to open the base).   They seem to have held up just fine (knock wood).  I have seen the pics of the ones that have snapped.   I don’t bang the throttle around, since I tend to have a fair bit of mechanical sympathy.  I developed that sympathy when I was a kid by breaking things…on purpose just to see how things broke  .   All that has paid off as an adult, because it’s given me a good sense of material limits haha.  
 

I think these are pretty cool looking parts, it took me a while to determine they were even plastic.  It’s very precicely manufactured, I’m not even sure how it’s made…the surface finish, and the fine webbing for strengthening really quite nice.   Apparently though, like you’ve warned, they also appear to have some brittleness. It’s also worth being quite gentle with the final torquing of the mounting screws.    
 

 

[A Hamburgler]

I just got my Orion 2 f18 throttle in today and right out of the box the right throttle axis is dead. Everything else works great just the right throttle axis is showing no signs of life. I’ll be contacting their support soon. 

[Cgjunk2]

Keep us updated on how it goes.  Hopefully they will send one out quickly. 

[pappavis]

Same here, right X-axis failure, and left Z-axis only moves from 50% to 100%.

Failure was after <>336 hours of use.
 

On 3/11/2023 at 11:53 PM, Cgjunk2 said:

both cables show the ability to pass a signal from the hall sensors to the mother board

I've got some hobby electronics experience & test equipment and will look into this. If there is a hall sensor, whats the voltage?  I've got a Rigol scope and will investigate too.
 

[Cgjunk2]

On 5/12/2023 at 11:56 AM, pappavis said:

Same here, right X-axis failure, and left Z-axis only moves from 50% to 100%.

Failure was after <>336 hours of use.
 

I've got some hobby electronics experience & test equipment and will look into this. If there is a hall sensor, whats the voltage?  I've got a Rigol scope and will investigate too.
 

I'm not sure what voltage they use.  All the troubleshooting and testing I did was using Winwings Simmap pro software.   I determined the cables and the hall sensors were good in my case, because both sensors/cables were being read by the simapp pro software  when they were plugged into one of the motherboard sockets, but not when I swapped them to the other socket. 

[Cgjunk2]

Just posting to update that my Wingwing throttle replacement arrived a few days ago.  I was told it took a while because some changes were made to it, as they determined it needed some more electrostatic resistance.  Which is interesting, because in the middle of winter, when the air was driest,  I do remember getting a couple of electro-static shocks from the throttle as I sat down in my simchair.  I hope these changes take care of whatever they thought the problem was. 

It's apparent they've at least revised the pivots on the throttle levers.  Instead of a solid cast metal box, the metal box is now open to the sides, where the the pivot area is.  In the open area now appears to reside a new plastic pivot system with plastic friction adjuster clamp. My guess is that this was done specifically for isolation of any external static electricity.  The cables that attach to the throttle handles also appear to be part of the revision, as the cable end is now plastic right below the metal screw collar.  The cable end has subtle winwing branding on it too.    It looks very nice.   And the encoder/axis levers on the right side now feel extremely smooth and light to move, with a softer middle detent.   I preferred the feel of the previous levers with the audible center click, but no big deal. 

The feel of the throttles as they pivot feels absolutely sublime at the current time.  And I say that having been completely satisfied as the feel of my previous unit.  They now feel as if they are hydraulicly damped, probably nyogelled I imagine.   The friction adjustment feels a little harder to turn, but it still allows for finer changes to friction.   I've used it the last three evenings, and it is an honest pleasure to move those levers around. 

Oh, and the revisions included different looking knobs, including the wing-fold knob.  At first I thought they were kinda cheap looking, but then I realized they are exact replicas of the knobs in the F18 cockpit lol.   Nicely done Wingwing. 
 

Hoping for the best regarding the longevity of this unit.