A10C2 Touble Finding Target - TGP WHOT/BHOT

[INSTIG8R]

Hey guys,

I tried finding a related article but no luck, if there is one .. please direct me to it.

I haven't been on in a while but thought  I would give it another go as multithreading is now out... wow... what a difference.

The only thing i am having issues with is finding targets when provided co ordinated by JTAC they are so hard to find. I eventually find them but its extremely difficult. Is this an issue or is this what it is now?

any help would be much appreciated

[A10Yoda]

33 minutes ago, INSTIG8R said:

Hey guys,

I tried finding a related article but no luck, if there is one .. please direct me to it.

I haven't been on in a while but thought  I would give it another go as multithreading is now out... wow... what a difference.

The only thing i am having issues with is finding targets when provided co ordinated by JTAC they are so hard to find. I eventually find them but its extremely difficult. Is this an issue or is this what it is now?

any help would be much appreciated

It just takes practice.  There is a lot to unpack here in this as it could be a factor of a few things.

That said, if you are looking for some training in this you can always get some one on one time with us over at: https://www.jointtaskforceheavy.org/

Issues can be anywhere from HOTAS issues, coordinate entry, LSS, bugged mission, computer settings, etc..

If you are getting coordinates from JTAC depending on your distance, the target should be in picture of the tgp.

Being active with the TGP and scanning while changing from WHOT to BHOT helps with identifying shapes quicker and easier of threats.

[dporter22]

You're likely having the same problem as all of us since the FLIR was broken many updates ago and still hasn't been fixed AFAIK. Objects are basically invisible in most circumstances no matter the brightness/contrast settings, BHOT/WHOT selection, time of day, terrain, etc. They just say that's how it's supposed to be or that we're doing something wrong, but it's not. I've flown IRL with the Litening pod (and Sniper pod) and the DCS image is not even close in most cases.

[INSTIG8R]

10 hours ago, dporter22 said:

You're likely having the same problem as all of us since the FLIR was broken many updates ago and still hasn't been fixed AFAIK. Objects are basically invisible in most circumstances no matter the brightness/contrast settings, BHOT/WHOT selection, time of day, terrain, etc. They just say that's how it's supposed to be or that we're doing something wrong, but it's not. I've flown IRL with the Litening pod (and Sniper pod) and the DCS image is not even close in most cases.

That's a shame, it used to be a lot better than what I am seeing right now. I am playing the same mission and can barely spot the units I was able to spot earlier. Tanks blend into the ground extremely well ha ha

 

On 3/12/2023 at 9:42 PM, A10Yoda said:

It just takes practice.  There is a lot to unpack here in this as it could be a factor of a few things.

That said, if you are looking for some training in this you can always get some one on one time with us over at: https://www.jointtaskforceheavy.org/

Issues can be anywhere from HOTAS issues, coordinate entry, LSS, bugged mission, computer settings, etc..

If you are getting coordinates from JTAC depending on your distance, the target should be in picture of the tgp.

Being active with the TGP and scanning while changing from WHOT to BHOT helps with identifying shapes quicker and easier of threats.

Thanks for the info  definitely changed as im playing the same mission i played a little while ago, some units on the map are ok and others are almost impossible without doing a very thorough search and crazy boat switching to find them which I haven't had to do previously. It's a shame they changed it. Annoying having to make several passes to find one unit and thats with JTAC providing co-ordinates. Should be super easy when JTAC is providing the exact location.

[A10Yoda]

As much as I agree with dporter's assessment, there are ways to train around it.  Sometimes it is DCS things that happen that you just have to chaulk up to **it happening once and a while.  

That said, even in real life instances do you have a smart enemy trying to be visible and is trying to mask their position.

Good luck to you..

[acamp04]

When was the FLIR broken with an update? Just curious how long it's been broken. I just flew a GAW sortie with BMPs and SA-18s out in the open and couldn't see a single thing on the TGP. I've flown the A-10C for hundreds of hours at this point, and I've never seen targets completely blend in to an open field like that. Hopefully they fix this, it makes ground attack missions basically unplayable.

Edited April 8, 2023 by acamp04

[jaylw314]

1 minute ago, acamp04 said:

When was the FLIR broken with an update? Just curious how long it's been broken. I just flew a GAW sortie with BMPs and SA-18s out in the open and couldn't see a single thing on the TGP. I've flown the A-10C for hundreds of hours at this point, and I've never seen targets completely blend in to an open field like that. Hopefully they fix this, it makes ground attack missions basically unplayable.

 

It's been that way to some degree since the Apache release last year.  Some vehicles still don't have FLIR textures, and many terrain textures are brighter than warm vehicles.  Sometimes it gets worse, sometimes better.

[acamp04]

You would think they would have released the new FLIR tech with everything that they needed to support it, ya know, like FLIR textures and appropriate ground temps/reflectivity. Tired of this half-baked BS. This game is just beyond frustrating in too many ways. Anyway, thanks for the info!

[dporter22]

I'm sure ED tries its best, but it would be nice if they would prioritize the major things instead of the minor stuff. Lots of updates of little things like missile weights or obscure systems tweaks while a big thing like FLIR functionality is still not addressed.

[jaylw314]

In fairness the MT and OpenXR stuff were pretty big things and probably occupied much of the past 6-12 months, but, yes, IR views remain a pretty big issue.

[ASAP]

48 minutes ago, Dragan said:

Guys, there is one more important thing that needs to be fixed and it concerns the TGP in the A-10, and that is the problematic GIMB ROLL, which indisputably and very often occurs after prolonged maneuvering and especially when attacking with the GAU-8, I have been writing for years and about this problem, which should be urgently eliminated, thrown out if possible.Otherwise, FLIR is partially better compared to DCS 2.7, at least it doesn't have that strong lighting at night, so it's more tolerable for work at least in night conditions..

 

The gimbal roll is realistic and not an error that needs correcting. Here's an article with a video that has some real world footage where it happens at the following times. 1:26, 1:45, 3:31, 3:58, 5:40. If you look at the SA cue as its moving around the TGP FOV you can tell its gimbal rolling right after the pilot shoots the gun and then initiates a wings level pull up.

https://www.military.com/video/operations-and-strategy/air-strikes/unclassified-a-10-warthog-war-footage/1489970323001

Edited April 12, 2023 by ASAP

[jaylw314]

10 minutes ago, ASAP said:

The gimbal roll is realistic and not an error that needs correcting. Here's an article with a video that has some real world footage where it happens at the following times. 1:26, 1:45, 3:31, 3:58, 5:40. If you look at the SA cue as its moving around the TGP FOV you can tell its gimbal rolling right after the pilot shoots the gun and then initiates a wings level pull up.

https://www.military.com/video/operations-and-strategy/air-strikes/unclassified-a-10-warthog-war-footage/1489970323001

 

I think that footage shows both the GIMB ROLL problem and the gimbal lock problem. 

The TGP spinning around near the forward sector I think is a true gimbal lock issue, where the longitudinal axis can't rotate fast enough for video tracking only when the other axis is near the forward limit.

I haven't found any solid explanation of the GIMB ROLL issue, but I suspect it is because the longitudinal axis can only rotate a certain amount before it reaches a physical limit and can rotate no more.  At that point, any further rotation won't happen, and the camera needs to 'unwind'.  This could happen with the other axis pointing anywhere.

If my speculation is correct:

• Gimbal lock
  • happens only near center of HUD
  • can resume normal tracking immediately
• GIMB ROLL
  • can happen anywhere after too much rolling
  • cannot resume normal tracking until unwound

What I can't figure out is how to unwind the TGP with GIMB ROLL.  I've tried rolling in the direction of the arrows, or opposite the arrows, and neither works consistently until all of a sudden, everythings's fine <shrug>

[Gasman6]

11 hours ago, jaylw314 said:

What I can't figure out is how to unwind the TGP with GIMB ROLL.  I've tried rolling in the direction of the arrows, or opposite the arrows, and neither works consistently until all of a sudden, everythings's fine <shrug>

Hit the OBS button on the TGP to return to boresight and then re-sight your target.

[jaylw314]

3 hours ago, Gasman6 said:

Hit the OBS button on the TGP to return to boresight and then re-sight your target.

Yes, that does it in DCS but I was assuming the arrows next to GIMB ROLL meant something.  IIRC, they don't have the B-S button on the real Litening pod

[Dragan]

18 hours ago, jaylw314 said:

I think that footage shows both the GIMB ROLL problem and the gimbal lock problem. 

The TGP spinning around near the forward sector I think is a true gimbal lock issue, where the longitudinal axis can't rotate fast enough for video tracking only when the other axis is near the forward limit.

I haven't found any solid explanation of the GIMB ROLL issue, but I suspect it is because the longitudinal axis can only rotate a certain amount before it reaches a physical limit and can rotate no more.  At that point, any further rotation won't happen, and the camera needs to 'unwind'.  This could happen with the other axis pointing anywhere.

If my speculation is correct:

• Gimbal lock
  • happens only near center of HUD
  • can resume normal tracking immediately
• GIMB ROLL
  • can happen anywhere after too much rolling
  • cannot resume normal tracking until unwound

What I can't figure out is how to unwind the TGP with GIMB ROLL.  I've tried rolling in the direction of the arrows, or opposite the arrows, and neither works consistently until all of a sudden, everythings's fine <shrug>

I partially discovered a way to unroll the gimbal when it is locked without resetting the TGP to Boresight, for example if I started a cannon attack when I see that I have a GIMB ROLL warning, at that moment I give up the attack and turn to the opposite side of that one in which I was going into a dive until then, when I make a turn I go into a dive and the gimbal unwound, of course it can't last that long, I say cannon attack is a problem and every dive below 25-30 degrees is critical, I'm not saying that everything is unrealistic but it often drives me crazy, here is a possible solution 

And let me not forget, that turning in the opposite direction from the previous one must be more lively and faster, obviously that's the only way it helps to return

Edited April 12, 2023 by Dragan

[Dragan]

6 hours ago, Gasman6 said:

Hit the OBS button on the TGP to return to boresight and then re-sight your target.

In that case, it goes again to search for the target and create the SPI again

[ASAP]

7 hours ago, jaylw314 said:

 IIRC, they don't have the B-S button on the real Litening pod

The boresight button is still there in real life. To be honest I havent' played around with this issue a whole lot, and frankly I've never had a big problem with this issue. I would think slaving your target to a new SPI would cause the system to unwind itself as well. Any time you look over the rails and use the HMCS to slave the TGP to something it will also unwind itself on the way if necessary from what I've observed the game doing.