Vuzix VR920 and DCS: Black Shark

[goteron]

I have emailed this question to DCS CS twice with no response. I am waiting to purchase pending the answer to this question:

 

Does DCS:BS work with the Vuzix VR920 headset with full functionality. Including video and Head Tracking. Thanks for the help;

[Rhino4]

Well, it worked with lockon...DCS is pretty much just an upgraded version of lockon with mostly the same code. My guess is that it would, but there's only one way to find out.

[urze]

This is my "simulation" what you would see with them in BS while having your hands at the Keyboard.

 

 

So there should be no problem to 'look down' and refocus the eyes for the keyboard and use it without problems.

 

I used similar goggles on the ILA.

 

But keep in mind that you will have a hard time to read the instruments/identify mission-objectives

- because the VR920

has res of 640x480. Below you see a sreenshot of BS that I scaled down to this size that you can see what you will get.

 

There is no doubt at all that it adds much to your immersion

- but not the best if you really need to read all info you get from the instruments/HUD.

 

Maybe wait until a better resolution on a responsible price is available.

640x480:

Edited February 2, 2009 by urze

[goteron]

Is the display that bad? I have a 28" 1600X1200 monitor, but I had used the old Track IR with head tracking and was never happy with it. I agree with not being able to see the keyboard, but for an immersive experience, is this not the way to go?

[Flim]

They are coming out with the V1440 soon, 800*600 each eye I think.

[urze]

Goteron, you must judge yourself - I posted the images above to help you a little.

 

The display isn't "that Bad"- but it's only 640x480.

 

You must know that I'm using BS on a resolution of 3840x2048 on my setup together with a touchscreen.

I can clearly read all instruments without a problem any time - and without zooming in.And my Display covers 45° of my field of view in front of me. (example Video)

- so VR goggles are not a option for me up to now. Unless the res of them is better and a camera on them can track my hand and project a "virtual finger" into the goggles that I know witch switch I'm using.

I couldn't imagine to step back to a smaller res any more.

 

But if you are planning to get this goggles only for the joy of flying without the need to get every information from the instruments or using the Abris efficient with these goggles - its pure fun!

 

Like I wrote above:

I used similar goggles (also with 640x480) at the ILA last year with MSFS.

The feeling was very good! -but I wasn't really able to read the instruments clearly.

I could only guess about my exact altitude and heading while looking into the virtual cockpit of a Cessna 182.

Edited February 2, 2009 by urze

[goteron]

Urze,

 

Thank you for that in-depth answer. I had read somewhere that since the display was closer to your eyes, 640x480 appeared to be a little better resolution. And that reading desktop icons was not a problem. I remember having seen some 160 FOV goggles that were 1080p, but I imagine that would relate to about the same resolution for the FOV you have with the VR920's. I am working on a motion platform that I thought the 920's would add another degree of immersion. I had also looked at the eye shields that go along with them that block out the other light. The other use was going to be fsx, flying the extra 300, in which case i believe it would be great, but you are probably right for a study sim like BS. Again, I appreciate your help and answers. Are there any other solutions for HD headsets? I had also looked at immersive displays (The half sphere type) with a specialized projector, but they are slightly more expensive, and probably out of my price range. I think for me, wide angle vision is probably more important than reading gauges, but I could be completely wrong once I give it a shot. Thanks again and I will keep on looking for an acceptable solution.

 

Or just get a pair of these for 20k

 

http://sensics.com/products/pisightSection/

Edited February 2, 2009 by goteron

[deviletk]

or this while going to get some beer from the fridge?

 

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=kCEiC5Mg1tU&feature=related

 

I was waiting for that guy to walk straight into a tree or something! :megalol:

 

I have to admit ive been looking at 3DVisor and i-goggles among others and feel it should be a next step for extreme gamers/simmers. They do need to get a bit better for entertainment though, and hopefully a bit cheaper. :)

 

I dont know exactlly how fast that world is developing since it doesnt seem to be wide spread among the entertainment business (doctors and military mostly atm) but i think if the resolution went up and they could offer a version to a more reasonable price, they would sell. I would buy them for sure.

 

Only one real issue here - you'll look like an idiot. Be sure to be alone when using them or you might start losing friends & family. :D

[goteron]

Is there any indication on when the VR1440's are coming out? I have looked around but cannot find any rumors on them. I cant imagine they should be a long time coming, For those, I do not see $400 being too expensive for a display device, any large high resolution monitor will be about the same. I was going to pull off the ear pieces and mount them on a helmet, if your going to look stupid, you might as well go all the way, and you may be able to pass them off as NVG's at least until you go to the doctor with a neck strain. I just really wish the sensics were more reasonable. I would be willing to pay a few grand for high res 150 deg FOV HMD.

[deviletk]

Yes $400 isnt too bad, i was thinking of the ones i mentioned wich has 1024x768 and are around $1000-$1500 wich is a bit much.

[goteron]

Are you talking about the Vuzix VR1440's, are they out yet?

 

Sorry, re-read the post and saw the 3D visor... Thanks

Edited February 2, 2009 by goteron

[RockStar]

I dont Know when they are comming out yet either, but I am also interested in the VR1440.

 

Vuzix VR1440

 

* Native resolution 800x600 per eye

* Downscales resolutions up to 1600x1200 (hopefully upscales 640x480, but I haven't heard)

* Aspect ratio 4:3

* Stereoscopic 3D

** Style same as VR920, but with earbuds on wires that clip onto the outside of the earpieces when not in use.

* 6DOF Headtracking

 

Image: http://www.mblast.com/files/companies/150198/Logo/JPEG/63946.dscn0044smaller.gif

[hannibal]

i think its awesome that you have a 1:1 ratio of head tracking to in game viewing...instead of the trackIR adjusted ratio...

[Reticuli]

It would take very little effort for ED to impliment each the VR920 and eMagin Z800 native headtracking. They have no interest, though, and they tend to make wiseass remarks like the ones above about how useless HMDs are. They have a deal with the TrackIR guys, which is also why Blackshark's TIR portion will actually attack and deactivate the eMagin's own native headtracking if you attempt to use it for TrackIR or even just analog joystick axis emulation with GlovePIE. Nice shadey malware trick. ED claimed that Flaming Cliffs was made compatible with the Z800 HMD, but all they did was add 800x600 resolution to the graphics menu... something you could already do with some very simple text editing of the graphics config file. They did not impliment native headtracking, so you were still forced to use mouse emulation. I've been talking about this stuff for years; click on my name and go read all my posts ;-P

 

My eMagin uses OLEDs, so the contrast is extremely good, making LCDs look synthetic by comparison. I just don't like the film-grain-like variation in pixel brightness/contrast that it has. Unlike a motion picture, this grain does not vary and shimmer in a "living" way, but stays like a still photo. Weird. I was the first person ever to figure out a way to do OLED calibration using a test image and getting each RGB component in both eyes to match at least in their blacks to avoid shadows not matching in the eyes...an unpleasant effect. Not sure if eMagin's forums are still around with the procedure for that. Stereoscopics really require you to get that and a lot of other things right, something those stupid Super Bowel Movement game commercials could't come close to. I mean, a stereoscopic scene with no textures and all white? WTF is the point?! And they had the dagger being thrown not even converging properly, like it was backwards. Clearly Holywood doesn't know poo about true 3D vision.

 

On an up note, a friend of mine got to do the music for the Hulu.com (I think that's the name of it) commerical. The one with Alec Baldwin.

Edited February 4, 2009 by Reticuli

[goteron]

Reticuli, When you say they have "film grain variation" are you talking about the VR920's or Z800's. Although the Z800's are more expensive, they seem to be a better deal if you were to buy a pair. Thanks for the help.

[Reticuli]

Z800's OLEDs have pixel brightness variation from one pixel to another that makes it look like a still's film grain. I think the first LCDs also had this sort of fixed, non-"living" shimmer or sparkle effect. In motion picture film, obviously, each frame is different, so that grain moves and "lives" as we like to call it...not to mention the grains are smaller than an 800x600's picture elements. It's one of the reasons why digital photographed movies look sterile and why even CGI with synthetic grain added doesn't quite look the same...either too soft and regular in grain or too artificial.

 

Anyway, yeah the Z800 is a good deal at the original price...assuming you got a good one. The early units have problems with the OLEDs starting to die after about a year on the right side of the OLEDs themselves. About a 25% to 50% chance per eye. It's pretty expensive now that they started focusing more on the military, science, and medical establishment, not to mention have a better manufacturing process.

 

I think the actual cost for each 800x600 OLED per eye is $600 now, which is lower than the total HMD cost during a very brief period when it was like $500 for two months. They could have been dumping old stock, though. I paid $700 with a CES coupon when I first tracked them down and met the company at the convention after having been following their developments for about a year. I was the guy that actually got Flaming Cliffs running properly on their labtop they were using at the kiosk.

 

They also have a 1600x1200 OLED appropriate to HMDs that is functional and at least past the prototype phase. Unlike the TrackIR company, the full eMagin tracker and stereo SDK, labtools, SDK utility, and multiple HMD driver versions are all available for free and without any special agreements required. You can find them on the eMagin website.

Edited February 6, 2009 by Reticuli

[Mnemonic]

It would take very little effort for ED to impliment each the VR920 and eMagin Z800 native headtracking. They have no interest, though, and they tend to make wiseass remarks like the ones above about how useless HMDs are.

And that's bad, I used to play BlackShark with mine VR920 emulating head-tracking via GlovePIE, and using NVidia stereo on GeForce 6600.

 

But, you know, on 6600 you can fly only non combat missions. Hovewer it was enjoyable experience.

 

If goggles proper implemented, they give huge positive experience, but, however ED does not want to make native support... :(

 

Now on my GeForce 9800 I cannot use VR920 native driver instead of NVidia, because it DLL blocked via BlackShark starforce. No luck with stereo on this front.

 

I'm waiting on VR1440 and semi-transparent Wrap AV920 of Vuzix, maybe situation with drivers will be changed.

[Mnemonic]

i think its awesome that you have a 1:1 ratio of head tracking to in game viewing...instead of the trackIR adjusted ratio...

Yeah! Thats great!

But also stereo gives huge feeling of depth!

[bluepilot76]

Hi Im just trying to get up to speed on this, anyone following developments in this field? I am buying some reconditioned Vuzix wrap 920's to get started with. From this thread I get the impression they wont really be much use, but a interesting taster of things to come hopefully.

[Haggart]

I've also a 920er lying around, bought solely for LOMAC a few years ago ;D perhaps an petition?

[bluepilot76]

Do they not actually work at all with the DCS series?

 

I want to use TIR5 anyway and was thinking getting the VGA ouput onto the goggles shouldnt affect anything in game?