New to the WWII arena, how to start?

[Mik75]

Hi there!

I´m a long(er) time DCS user, but I just came to the "WW2 arena" during the last sale. I bought the A8 and D9 and the channel map. Due to the cool "test" feature of the e-shop, I´ve also got the Normandy 1944 map. I create simple missions, using the AI (1 vs 1) with "veterane" setting to train the dogfight. I´ve had a hard time, using the Anton, and it works a bit better in the Dora, but I still don´t feel anywhere near to being able to join a multiplayer server. I´ve flown a few missions, but I really wish, there was some sort of dogfight tutorial, especially for the warbirds. Any advice how to train my abilities in this area are highly appreciated!

Thanks a lot in advance.

Michael

Edit: basic flying and takeoffs and landings work consitentely good in both birds.

Edited April 1, 2023 by Mik75

[Mr_sukebe]

Use the mission editor to create a simple mission with an enemy aircraft and one for yourself.  Start with the enemy having a low skill and build up from there.

If you're both airborne, flying in the same vicinity and appropriately armed, that works.

Set your own aircraft as "client" with 4 aircraft in the flight and if/when you get shot down, just spawn into another aircraft of the same flight.

[Mik75]

11 minutes ago, Mr_sukebe said:

Use the mission editor to create a simple mission with an enemy aircraft and one for yourself.  Start with the enemy having a low skill and build up from there.

If you're both airborne, flying in the same vicinity and appropriately armed, that works.

Set your own aircraft as "client" with 4 aircraft in the flight and if/when you get shot down, just spawn into another aircraft of the same flight.

Thanks a lot. The idea with setting up a flight and spawning into another aircraft is excellent!

Could you quickly explain which sort of manuevers you consider being essential for the dogfight in warbirds?

Edited April 1, 2023 by Mik75

[razo+r]

Know energy management, when to engage and when to disengage. Unless you only get satisfaction by shooting, learn also how to be patient and sometimes not enter a fight at all, even if it means you won't shoot a single bullet.

[Mr_sukebe]

10 minutes ago, Mik75 said:

Thanks a lot. The idea with setting up a flight and spawning into another aircraft is excellent!

Could you quickly explain which sort of manuevers you consider being essential for the dogfight in warbirds?

 

 

My suggestion is to avoid getting into a dogfight.  In reality, an estimated 80% kills during WW2 were made against aircraft that didn't know the enemy was there.

This is particularly true for "energy" fighters, which the 190D9 is a good example of.  It's fast, but turns like a bus.

If anything, I'd say learn to simply fly it, such that you can happily take off and land in pretty much any weather conditions.  

[Mik75]

Roger!  

And yes, energy management seems extremely important and a bit (a lot) more demanding in the warbirds. I just have to get used to the possibilities and the limitations of them, I guess. 

2 minutes ago, Mr_sukebe said:

 

My suggestion is to avoid getting into a dogfight.  In reality, an estimated 80% kills during WW2 were made against aircraft that didn't know the enemy was there.

This is particularly true for "energy" fighters, which the 190D9 is a good example of.  It's fast, but turns like a bus.

If anything, I'd say learn to simply fly it, such that you can happily take off and land in pretty much any weather conditions.  

Yes, I've read about that. With all the modern birds I've flown, I'm pretty used to BVR and being a bit "aggressive" when it comes to PvP. In the warbirds, it's a whole different story, obviously. Spotting an aircraft and identifying it alone, is quite a task. 

Edited April 1, 2023 by Mik75

[Art-J]

Truth to be told, you chose two most difficult DCS warbirds to fight in. Both turn like buses, both are terrible at energy retention (though Dora with this monster of an engine at least makes up for it in power department and thus is a hot rod in a straight line and marginally better in sustained turns), the only maneuvering thing they excell at by a large margin over everything else is their eye-popping roll rate.

They require completely different tactics than, say Spitfire, so there's no one-size-fits-all handbook for warbirds.

They can be made to work pretty well when flying online together with skilled wingmen, but not so much when flying solo, or offline, against ever-cheating AI. To get some tactics inspiration, you might want to take a look at some of the older vids of Phil Style on his YT channel, when he used to fly A8 with his buddies on Storm of War server long ago.

 

[Mik75]

6 minutes ago, Art-J said:

Truth to be told, you chose two most difficult DCS warbirds to fight in. Both turn like buses, both are terrible at energy retention (though Dora with this monster of an engine at least makes up for it in power department and thus is a hot rod in a straight line and marginally better in sustained turns), the only maneuvering thing they excell at by a large margin over everything else is their eye-popping roll rate.

They require completely different tactics than, say Spitfire, so there's no one-size-fits-all handbook for warbirds.

They can be made to work pretty well when flying online together with skilled wingmen, but not so much when flying solo, or offline, against ever-cheating AI. To get some tactics inspiration, you might want to take a look at some of the older vids of Phil Style on his YT channel, when he used to fly A8 with his buddies on Storm of War server long ago.

 

Right! The FW190s are a handful. I´ve chosen the FW190 because I had a very neat Anton for FSX which I absolutely loved... But I´ve flown all of the A2A Accusim birds as well, including the Spitfire and the P47... So, which warbird is a good allrounder for a beginner (if such a thing exists)?

Edited April 1, 2023 by Mik75

[Doughguy]

Quote

So, which warbird is a good allrounder for a beginner (if such a thing exists)?

Since i own both 190s and the Mustang, i say the Mustang.
Its easy to t/o and land and flies rather smootly w/o much quirks compared to other planes.
190s are diffuclt to t/o, land and groundhandling. spit and 109´s even more and the 47s need much engine care afaik.

But if you can handle t/os and landings in the 190´s you gonna be all good with them.

There´s plenty advice for both birds on here.

But to break it down:

Dicta Boelcke is a good start.

Fight on your (planes) terms! Always! If you´re in a bad pos, disengange or creep away. Do not get target fixation. It´s a death sentence, especially in the Anton.

Picking your prey from a good position is essential, instead of hot-headedly diving into a fight. It´ll simply get you killed. Flying the 190s you kinda get used to flying very disciplined and observant. Both planes are very good divers and climbers and can withstand quite some tight turns and high speeds.
So ideally, you want to observe, where your target is and where its going, to judge a good angle of attack, without much deflection. Then latch onto it, pull up and extend.
Most of the allied planes will not be able to catch you, if you stick tightly to b&z tactics.
If something gets off, abort, climb, and reasses the situation. Fly safe first. Agression comes with experience, as you learn your planes  capabilities.

Both, Dora and Anton cant really turn well compared to the allied planes, especially with the spit. So generally dont, you´ll just stall and flip to the other side, which the   190´s like to do.
Against the Mustang, the Dora can hold its own quite well, as performance-differences are marginal. If going low and slow, add start or even landing flaps during turns. Helps a lot to stay stable as the 190´s seem to depart flight easily especially if you pull to hard and also you can turn tighters. Just dont deploy flaps during highspeed turns out of dives. Guns can jam.

Ideally you want to retain a fighting speed of about 400 - 500 upto 4000 meters. The Mustang will have the edge above 6000 meters as it simply was designed as a high alt escort fighter and has better wings compared to the dora and anton.

Do not try to outdive the mustang, its faster in the dive and has better speed retention. Climb alot! Tight rather steep chandelles with mw50 engaged will give you the edge over mustang and spit. once you have like min 500m height seperation and the bandist is on your front quarters drop on it.

Try to extend from bad situations instead of maneuvering wildly. The term Cadilac is quite accurate. Dora and Anton retain speed badly. Especially the Dora is quite a monster. Engage mw50 and do a shallow climb. Often AI disenganges after a minute, if not, start chandelles, climb, swoop, rinse and repeat.

The 190´s are team planes, especially the Anton.

Also try to get accustomed to the Doras gyro sight. Its arkward and more diffcult to handle compared to the mustangs, but if set right just damn deadly.
The static sight is all about experience really.

Short burts will light up the allied planes quite fast, especially from closer ranges and from slight angles. ideally from below. a broken radiator will usually force the mustang to disengange, factually making it a kill.

The Thunderbolts take more punch, but well placed shots do magic.

I16s are nimble little suckers, that can dish out and take alot of punch! And compared to the dora/anton, rather very slow! So dont underestimate these when they lure you into a dogfight, they can fly like a kite at these speeds, while you struggle to stay airborne.

Edited April 2, 2023 by Doughguy

[Mr_sukebe]

As an all rounder, IMO overall the Mustang is the easiest to fly, though again, it’s not the best turn fighter and gets rather upset with overly fast turns or when getting towards it’s stall speed.

The i16 is the best straight dogfighter, having an extremely tight turning circle.  Making up for that, it’s dog slow and struggles to catch cruising bombers.  The Spit is next up.  Very easy to dogfight in, but slower than the D9, K4 and Mustang.

The most important thing to understand are the advantages that your aircraft has against the other and try to engage on your terms.

So for example, the Spit will easily out turn the Luftwaffe aircraft. If you’re in a K4, don’t get into a straight turn fight.

Edited April 3, 2023 by Mr_sukebe

[Mik75]

Superb guys! That's really super helpful! Thanks a lot for your effort! I think, I'll stick to the Dora for now and will just learn it by flying it a lot! Yesterday, I've been able to get 4 kills in quick self-made 1v1 missions, against the Mustang set to "veteran".

Edited April 2, 2023 by Mik75