INS special option

[Mavkruger]

Hi, i would if possible move the INU option to special ka50 option.

If it's not possible, tell us the choice of the mission maker on the kneeboard or something we can see before starting up

[grusche]

Hello, I would also love to have an accelerated alignment option similar to the harrier. The 20 minutes the Ka50 needs during a cold start to properly use datalink are rather off-putting (even if using time compression).

[Sealpup]

Definitely needed as a server-authoritative option. So that those using the Shark in multiplayer can actually make full use of it without needing to occupy ramp space for almost half an hour.

[Hobel]

Am 9.8.2023 um 16:52 schrieb Sealpup:

Definitely needed as a server-authoritative option. So that those using the Shark in multiplayer can actually make full use of it without needing to occupy ramp space for almost half an hour.

And 1 minute after take off you will be shot down and have to start all over again.  

+1 am also for this special option, 3-5min takes the normal ka50 start up without INS which is perfectly fine.   Maybe, you could take as an argument for special option that the ka50III after spawn is connected to a generator and thus the helicopter on standby with combat ready INS alignment.

Edited August 27, 2023 by Hobel

[QuiGon]

On 4/13/2023 at 6:19 PM, Mavkruger said:

Hi, i would if possible move the INU option to special ka50 option.

If it's not possible, tell us the choice of the mission maker on the kneeboard or something we can see before starting up

In MP this should be under the control to the server admin (as it is right now), in order to be able to enforce the same level of realism to all players equally (if desired).
But yeah, letting the players know what setting is in effect would be a good idea.

[Hobel]

vor einer Stunde schrieb QuiGon:

In MP this should be under the control to the server admin (as it is right now), in order to be able to enforce the same level of realism to all players equally (if desired).
But yeah, letting the players know what setting is in effect would be a good idea.

What do you mean exactly?

Yes there is a selection in the mission editor but as far as I know this only applies to hot Ka50IIIs. 

When I start a cold KA50III I am forced to make a clean 15-20min start up, for a combat rdy ins.

[QuiGon]

1 hour ago, Hobel said:

What do you mean exactly?

Yes there is a selection in the mission editor but as far as I know this only applies to hot Ka50IIIs.

There are two options, one applies to cold starts as well and determines how the INS behaves.

  

1 hour ago, Hobel said:

When I start a cold KA50III I am forced to make a clean 15-20min start up, for a combat rdy ins.

You only need to do a 3 min accelerated alignment in order for a combat rdy INS, even with the fully realistic setting.

Edited August 28, 2023 by QuiGon

[Hobel]

vor 32 Minuten schrieb QuiGon:

You only need to do a 3 min accelerated alignment in order for a combat rdy INS, even with the fully realistic setting.

The fast(3min) alignment is not intended for combat use, therefore it drifts there also partly very strongly, for combat use the other longer alignments are necessary.

vor 32 Minuten schrieb QuiGon:

There are two options, one applies to cold starts as well and determines how the INS behaves.

  

I'll have to look at that again, but if you have realistic settings and start the helicopter from cold, you usually don't have any "stored" or anything.

 

EDIT: here there are currently only the realistic settings that simplify the realistic INS behavior in general, but to set the thing to "arcade" is not the question here it is purely about the start up.   And there would be another "stand by"option for the editor still desirable

 

 

 

Edited August 28, 2023 by Hobel

[QuiGon]

6 minutes ago, Hobel said:

The fast(3min) alignment is not intended for combat use, therefore it drifts there also partly very strongly, for combat use the other longer alignments are necessary.

I use it all the time. Haven't experienced any issues with it since the initial issues after the release of BS3 got fixed

[Hobel]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb QuiGon:

I use it all the time. Haven't experienced any issues with it since the initial issues after the release of BS3 got fixed

Do you use the data link panel with your friends often?
Unfortunately drifts become noticeable very quickly

 

[QuiGon]

Just now, Hobel said:

Do you use the data link panel with your friends often?
Unfortunately drifts become noticeable very quickly

Nope, but shouldn't drifts be noticeable with normal PVU-800 WPs as well?

[Hobel]

vor 7 Minuten schrieb QuiGon:

Nope, but shouldn't drifts be noticeable with normal PVU-800 WPs as well?

It depends. I don't see this as being so dramatic for waypoints. I would still consider 250-500m as tolerable.  

But if you have 2 helicopters that adds up again, so a precise alignment for the data link use is very important in my eyes.  

  Do you not notice any drifts and how long are your missions when you fly? 

  With the fast alignment I already have strong drifts after 5-10 minutes of combat flight (+ evasive maneuvers). 

[QuiGon]

8 minutes ago, Hobel said:

It depends. I don't see this as being so dramatic for waypoints. I would still consider 250-500m as tolerable.  

But if you have 2 helicopters that adds up again, so a precise alignment for the data link use is very important in my eyes.  

  Do you not notice any drifts and how long are your missions when you fly? 

  With the fast alignment I already have strong drifts after 5-10 minutes of combat flight (+ evasive maneuvers). 

Hmm, I guess you do indeed need to do the longer alignments if you have such high demands for accuracy. For me the accelerated alignment is generaly more than enough to be combat ready.

Edited August 28, 2023 by QuiGon

[Mavkruger]

for me the mission editor should choose if you need to fixtakint (drift) or not, the time to align must stay a player choice.

In all situation, the player need to know what is the ins Status on the kneeboard for exemple.

 

[Hobel]

Am 28.8.2023 um 17:34 schrieb QuiGon:

Hmm, I guess you do indeed need to do the longer alignments if you have such high demands for accuracy. For me the accelerated alignment is generaly more than enough to be combat ready.

 

In solo flights this is not so dramatic, but when you fly with one or more wingmen it simply goes to the point of not being able to use the transmission of targets via data link, the drifts are then simply too large so that the target is either not found or other misunderstandings occur.  The drifts among each other add up which leads to chaotic results.

 

Therefore using data link on blueflag for example is not possible or an absolute fun killer, 15-20min start up is not realistic in a blueflag environment.   If I make a fast alignment it is too inaccurate.   If I do the exact one which takes 15-20 min and then again target approach which also takes another good 20-30min... Has the front in the time already shifted again or one is shot down and spends again 15min with the start up... This is quite frustrating

[QuiGon]

On 8/30/2023 at 8:55 AM, Hobel said:

Therefore using data link on blueflag for example is not possible or an absolute fun killer, 15-20min start up is not realistic in a blueflag environment.   If I make a fast alignment it is too inaccurate.   If I do the exact one which takes 15-20 min and then again target approach which also takes another good 20-30min... Has the front in the time already shifted again or one is shot down and spends again 15min with the start up... This is quite frustrating

I can understand that, but imho in MP the server hoster/admin should have the option to decide what kind of realism level he wants to enforce on his server, so that he can ensure fair gameplay.
In SP there is of course no issue with having the player decide what kind of INS realism setting he wants to use.

Edited August 31, 2023 by QuiGon

[Hobel]

Am 28.8.2023 um 16:39 schrieb QuiGon:

There are two options, one applies to cold starts as well and determines how the INS behaves.

  

You only need to do a 3 min accelerated alignment in order for a combat rdy INS, even with the fully realistic setting.

 

okay, I tested the whole thing again and you can select a "stored" precise alignment with the option(no aligment neede but fixtaking)in the ME and then the INU behaves normally with drifts and so on.

 

here are a few examples the flight time to the destination was ~30min each the maneuvers were flown very softly, in a combat situation it naturally drifts much more.

 

Fast:

#

~15 min Prec :
:

"Stored" (no aligment neede but fixtaking):

[QuiGon]

On 9/5/2023 at 10:14 PM, Hobel said:

okay, I tested the whole thing again and you can select a "stored" precise alignment with the option(no aligment neede but fixtaking)in the ME and then the INU behaves normally with drifts and so on.

So in the end there are already enough options to make everyone happy if I understood correctly?

Edited September 7, 2023 by QuiGon

[Hobel]

vor 16 Minuten schrieb QuiGon:

So in the end there are already enough options to make everyone happy if I understood correctly?

 

Yes.   It would only be nice if you could get a message or any info what option the server has set.  

Unless you can look that up in the Ka-50III itself. But I am not yet known how should this work

[QuiGon]

1 hour ago, Hobel said:

Yes.   It would only be nice if you could get a message or any info what option the server has set.  

Unless you can look that up in the Ka-50III itself. But I am not yet known how should this work

I agree, that's indeed something that is missing and should get added.

[Hobel]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb QuiGon:

I agree, that's indeed something that is missing and should get added.

the more you know..

I looked at the whole thing again and with a hint from @Volk. I found out that there is an indicator that tells you what the server has set.

If "no aligment neede but fixtaking" is set and you switch on the K-041 before the INU power supply, "Prec" lights up automatically on the PVI-800.

 

https://streamable.com/bbtokv

 

Edited September 7, 2023 by Hobel

[QuiGon]

14 minutes ago, Hobel said:

the more you know..

I looked at the whole thing again and with a hint from @Volk. I found out that there is an indicator that tells you what the server has set.

If "no aligment neede but fixtaking" is set and you switch on the K-041 before the INU power supply, "Prec" lights up automatically on the PVI-800.

 

https://streamable.com/bbtokv

Uhh, nice! That's really good to know!

[Donglr]

On 8/28/2023 at 5:09 PM, Hobel said:

 

so what do the first two settings actually mean?

1. Option means alignment is done after 3min and never drifts?

2. Option means alignment is done after 3min but does go bad? How fast does is go bad? In my understanding the rate of degradation depends on the kind of alignment was done. If every ten minutes I have to re-fix that would still suck. Is this option a combo of "3min actual alignment time at startup and INS drift as if a 15min alignment was done"?

[Hobel]

vor 4 Stunden schrieb Donglr:

so what do the first two settings actually mean?

1. Option means alignment is done after 3min and never drifts?
Less than 3 minutes, the system is ready immediately

2. Option means alignment is done after 3min but does go bad? How fast does is go bad? In my understanding the rate of degradation depends on the kind of alignment was done. If every ten minutes I have to re-fix that would still suck. Is this option a combo of "3min actual alignment time at startup and INS drift as if a 15min alignment was done"?

 it should be the precise alignment

 

Edited January 2 by Hobel

[PawlaczGMD]

I second the request to move the "no alignment needed but fixtaking" option into YOUR special options. Fast INS alignment is insufficient for combat use (datalink targets). I don't want to have to align for 15-20 mins of real time, and neither do I want the arcade option of no drift if the server selects it.