reported CCIP when WPNDSG

[Lekaa]

Hello, is it the case that it's as intended when choosing wpndsg and going to the bomb, like mk82 and choosing CCIP, it says CCIP in the stores page in the profile, but it won't give me the CCIP line in the hud, it will stay in auto no matter what until I Undesignate. 

Is this intended?

Edited April 14, 2023 by Lekaa

[Lekaa]

Track is here. very short. please watch until the end

CCIP.trk

[Vakari]

Same here. The patch notes from yesterday mentioned a fix for this in the Hornet, but I don't think it's working. From the patch notes:

• Fixed: Bomb program is CCIP but there is a TGT designated, it will act as if in AUTO.

Edited April 14, 2023 by Vakari

[Lekaa]

The problem is that if you go to the mission weapons training in the instant mission.

 

When choosing a bomb BEFORE wpndsg it will stay in ccip even if you then wpndsg. When then choosing another bomb it will be at auto no matter unless undesignated the waypoint

When then choosing wpndsg it won't return to CCIP all though its written ccip in the stores page.

 

Funny thing that in that mission we have rockets as well, when choosing the rockets and then head back to the bomb, mk whatever it will be able to go back to CCIP again while still WPNDSG

Edited April 14, 2023 by Lekaa

[Vakari]

Figured I'd also add a short track file to help out.

CCIP Bug Test.trk

[Blackfyre]

AFAIK, it is intended behavior. If there is designated target then it should be AUTO mode regardless of CCIP setting in stores page as stated in patch notes.

Prooflink:

 

Edited April 14, 2023 by Blackfyre

[Harker]

This was wrong in the past and corrected now. CCIP should not be available with a ground designation, it should always revert to AUTO. The program will still say CCIP, because that is the program's selected mode, regardless of designation.

[Vakari]

Given the format of the patch notes, it seems like the old, broken behavior was described and labeled as fixed. They show "Fixed" followed by a description of what was wrong. Perhaps the notes should mention the old behavior, followed by the new behavior. Sometimes they can be ambiguous.

I'm new to DCS/Hornet and just a few of days ago I noticed the CCIP thing while learning, and assumed it was intended. The patch didn't seem to affect the behavior I experienced, so I assumed the fix didn't actually work.

If it's working now how it is supposed to in a real Hornet, that's fine with me, but it seems strange that the Hornet would be designed to not give the pilot full control of the bombing method/target visualization.

[Lekaa]

6 minutes ago, Harker said:

This was wrong in the past and corrected now. CCIP should not be available with a ground designation, it should always revert to AUTO. The program will still say CCIP, because that is the program's selected mode, regardless of designation.

 

16 minutes ago, Blackfyre said:

AFAIK, it is intended behavior. If there is designated target then it should be AUTO mode regardless of CCIP setting in stores page as stated in patch notes.

Prooflink:

 

 

 

Then it's glitched. Choosing the bomb before entering a/g like in the track will still be able to drop ccip with the diamond.

Or going to rockets and then back to the bomb while in a/g with the diamond will also be able to drop in ccip with the diamond

Edited April 14, 2023 by Lekaa

[Blackfyre]

31 minutes ago, Vakari said:

Given the format of the patch notes, it seems like the old, broken behavior was described and labeled as fixed. They show "Fixed" followed by a description of what was wrong. Perhaps the notes should mention the old behavior, followed by the new behavior. Sometimes they can be ambiguous.

Yep. Wording in patch notes not that great sometimes. I'd say often not clear enough.

31 minutes ago, Vakari said:

If it's working now how it is supposed to in a real Hornet, that's fine with me, but it seems strange that the Hornet would be designed to not give the pilot full control of the bombing method/target visualization.

Why would you want CCIP with designated target? Given that you have desired impact point as designated target, so it makes sense to compute release point in AUTO mode.

27 minutes ago, Lekaa said:

Then it's glitched. Choosing the bomb before entering a/g like in the track will still be able to drop ccip with the diamond.

Then I don't know what was fixed...

Edited April 14, 2023 by Blackfyre

[Lekaa]

can't be easier to notice then in this video : 1:30 min long with new trackfile

 

CCIP2.trk

[Vakari]

14 minutes ago, Blackfyre said:

Why would you want CCIP with designated target? Given that you have desired impact point as designated target, so it makes sense to compute release point in AUTO mode.

I designate targets all the time so I can see them from a distance, then line up for the attack. If the target designator on the HUD interferes with my sight I un-designate and drop, otherwise I keep it. I like the situational awareness. I haven't found a situation yet where I'd even want to drop unguided bombs in auto as they're too inaccurate for my taste.

The Hornet tends to X-out unavailable options, so it also seemed to me that the CCIP option would be X'd-out if a target was designated. I don't know much about real-life aviation, so I tend to look at things from a gamer's perspective. I wouldn't design the laser to disarm itself after every drop, but if that's real-life then I accept it and move on. I just wanted to assist with this bug report because the patch states its fixed now, but in the sim it isn't. If it stays the way it is, I'll accept it, just feeling the Hornet is 0.00001% worse than it could be hah.

[Blackfyre]

1 hour ago, Vakari said:

I designate targets all the time so I can see them from a distance, then line up for the attack. If the target designator on the HUD interferes with my sight I un-designate and drop, otherwise I keep it. I like the situational awareness. I haven't found a situation yet where I'd even want to drop unguided bombs in auto as they're too inaccurate for my taste.

I often use designation to just mark a target area too. In conjunction with markpoints (to quickly return designation) very useful. AUTO mode has the same accuracy as CCIP as soon as you execute the same maneuver (diving). If you use TGP it becomes very handy. See an example. (Video was supposed to show atrocious ground glowing, not my best bombing)

1 hour ago, Vakari said:

The Hornet tends to X-out unavailable options, so it also seemed to me that the CCIP option would be X'd-out if a target was designated. I don't know much about real-life aviation, so I tend to look at things from a gamer's perspective.

It wouldn't make sense if Hornet had disabled CCIP, because  "undesignate and drop in CCIP" method would become unavailable.

P.S. Right now both AUTO(recently) and CCIP(for a long time) are inaccurate, but there is workaround for CCIP mode (use GPS instead of AINS).

Edited April 14, 2023 by Blackfyre

[Lekaa]

@BIGNEWY

17 hours ago, Lekaa said:

can't be easier to notice then in this video : 1:30 min long with new trackfile

 

CCIP2.trk 1.33 MB · 2 downloads

@BIGNEWYhere is the track and short clip

[Harker]

@BIGNEWY
@BIGNEWYhere is the track and short clip

Yeah, I can't watch the track now, but the behavior in the video is definitely a bug. Good catch with this occurring if you're not in A/G.

[Lekaa]

59 minutes ago, Harker said:

6 hours ago, Lekaa said:

@BIGNEWY
@BIGNEWYhere is the track and short clip

Yeah, I can't watch the track now, but the behavior in the video is definitely a bug. Good catch with this occurring if you're not in A/G.

You also get the CCIP for the bombs back even when in A/G IF you switch to something like rockets that can have CCIP when WPNDSG and then go back to the bomb like in the video.

[maxTRX]

It was nice to be able to see the target designation on the ground when using CCIP.  As we all know Auto mode was consistently causing short hits. With CCIP we could time the release just right to compensate for this. Well, forget the target designation box. What would make a hell of a difference is the ability to see multiple marked points (at least 2 or 3  ) on our JHMCS displays, sort of like A/A contacts. In situations requiring constant turning and rolling in/out, having marked points (designated or not) saves time and makes it a lot easier to acquire targets visually.

[LastRifleRound]

TACMAN does state that if you have a designation, bomb drops will always be AUTO.

[amalahama]

On 4/15/2023 at 8:30 PM, oldcrusty said:

It was nice to be able to see the target designation on the ground when using CCIP.  As we all know Auto mode was consistently causing short hits. With CCIP we could time the release just right to compensate for this. Well, forget the target designation box. What would make a hell of a difference is the ability to see multiple marked points (at least 2 or 3  ) on our JHMCS displays, sort of like A/A contacts. In situations requiring constant turning and rolling in/out, having marked points (designated or not) saves time and makes it a lot easier to acquire targets visually.

Call Boeing with your suggestions to imporve Hornet HMI

Regards

[BIGNEWY]

We do have this reported and a fix will be in a future patch 

thanks