Force feedback silly question

[firefox121]

Sorry for the question, but what exactly does FFB adjustment options to the Special Options menu?,

I have a sidewinder 2 FFB and don't know how to put the sliders in this ffb options. 

Can anyone point me into the right direction?

Thanks

[fausete]

Hi @firefox121. So, both in pitch and roll, you can use the sliders to select the minimum (centered) and maximum (full displacement) strengths you want to experience in your FFB.

Additionally, the pitch chain has a component called ARTHUR, which (in automatic mode) adapts the stiffness of the flight stick as a function of flight conditions (altitude and Mach), there's another option that allows you to regulate the difference between maximum and minimum ARTHUR values. I recommend that you play with the GRAND and PETIT ARTHUR options in the ARTHUR switch in the front left panel to see what adjustment suits you best.

[firefox121]

Thanks .... now I am a bit less dumb...

[fausete]

Don't worry, this explanation should eventually be available in the manual.

[Smollet]

There are already FFB joysticks capable of creating a force of 20 kg on a stick.  Please tell me what forces in kilograms should be in a real F1 plane?  This knowledge would help to fine-tune such joysticks more accurately.

[fausete]

Hi,

It is mentioned in the tooltip in the corresponding option in the Special Menu. Basically the maximum force in pitch is about 20 kg and about 10 kg in roll. The minimum forces are about 2 and 1 kg respectively.

So if your stick has a maximum force of 20 kg, you would set the options as follows:

Minimum FFB force in pitch: 10

Maximum FFB force in pitch: 100

Minimum FFB force in roll: 5

Maximum FFB force in roll: 50

[Hiob]

@fausete Hey, perhaps you can help me. I'm using a Rhino FFB base. When I first got it, the F1 worked like a charm and felt wonderful. However, I messed up my setting since then and now I get an annoying "pumping" effect (pretty violent at times) when pulling pitch on the stick..... and for the love of me, I can't figure out what causes it. 

Any Idea?

[fausete]

Hi,

I thought you had sorted it out by changing the Rhino settings:

"Hey, while I was out to record a track for you, I played around with the Rhino settings and actually got it sorted out. I had to much gain on the „constant“ force and so spring and FFB basically fought each other or engaged in some kind of feedback loop. Long story short - I messed up the settings for my Stick and the F1 was completely innocent. Thank you anyway. You gave me the right idea."

 

[Hiob]

Nevermind, got it sorted out.

Just now, fausete said:

Hi,

I thought you had sorted it out by changing the Rhino settings:

"Hey, while I was out to record a track for you, I played around with the Rhino settings and actually got it sorted out. I had to much gain on the „constant“ force and so spring and FFB basically fought each other or engaged in some kind of feedback loop. Long story short - I messed up the settings for my Stick and the F1 was completely innocent. Thank you anyway. You gave me the right idea."

 

Yeah, I fell in the same rabbit hole again and totally forgot about the reason. Courtesy of tinkering to much on too many fronts at a time…. 

Sorry for wasting your time!

[fausete]

No problem, it happens!

[Hiob]

11 minutes ago, fausete said:

No problem, it happens!

btw… the „issue“ is a bit more complex. Reducing constant force is more treating the symptoms than the cause. I got help by the guy that develops TelemFFB for the Rhino. In case somebody else stumbles across this problem, point him or her to me.

[Smollet]

Good day! Thanks to the development team for doing everything to bring FFB to a new level!

After the update, a strange sensation appeared on the FFB joystick. For example, when moving the joystick in roll or pitch, starting from a certain displacement speed, an intermittent force appears. It seems that every half a second it tries to stop the movement of the joystick and then immediately releases. After half a second, it tries to stop again and releases.
At the same time, if I apply significant effort to quickly move the joystick, then these intermittent stops are not felt (apparently I overpower them)

Judging by the entry from the changelog "Increased FFB responses to joystick displacement to better match the real flight stick." it seemed to me that this should have been a damped force (the faster I move the stick, the stronger the force).

Are these the correct sensations that you wanted to convey or is something wrong?
Can I read somewhere about how the force loading works in F1, so that I can understand what processes are happening there? To configure the FFB as accurately as possible.

And in addition, I would like to ask the development team to add the output of the FFB pedal center.
Many people (including me) already have FFB pedals with a force of up to 30 kg, but the planes in the DCS do not transmit the pedal center. Someone has to be the first)

P.S.: I use the FFBeast joystick and pedals. The available force on the joystick is up to 20 kg

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

1 hour ago, Smollet said:

I would like to ask the development team to add the output of the FFB pedal center.

Support for FFB pedals needs to be implemented on a DCS-level by ED first, I'd think 

[muffler]

Цитата

• Increased FFB responses to joystick displacement to better match the real flight stick.

@fausete @Vibora My respects to one of the best developers of modules for DCS. I admire your module and love it. But this time I got a very unpleasant surprise. Very, very poor implementation of the idea. Mirage F1 was my favorite plane in terms of control on the FFB joystick. After this innovation, it is impossible to fly the plane. The joystick twitches with any slightest movement. I roughly understand what you wanted to do, but apparently you were counting on joysticks with very weak force feedback. On devices capable of developing a force of 7 or more kilograms, this works very poorly. Please, return it as it was or at least make this function optional. I repeat, it has become impossible to fly the plane normally because of this innovation.

Edited October 6, 2024 by muffler

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

8 hours ago, muffler said:

I repeat, it has become impossible to fly the plane normally because of this innovation.

What are you using? The Mirage works just fine with my Rhino: in fact I lowered the minimum forces again in the special options after the update. It is sensitive yes but perfectly flyable with precision  

 

 

[muffler]

1 час назад, Raven (Elysian Angel) сказал:

What are you using? The Mirage works just fine with my Rhino: in fact I lowered the minimum forces again in the special options after the update. It is sensitive yes but perfectly flyable with precision  

 

 

I'm using FFBeast. Ok, I will try it. Hope it will work.

[Vibora]

Thank you for your report, please keep us informed, providing further feedback after your configuration changes.

[muffler]

6 минут назад, Vibora сказал:

Thank you for your report, please keep us informed, providing further feedback after your configuration changes.

Unfortunately this method doesn't work. With any combination of min/max force settings in pitch, the stick still jerking with any light moving. Sadly, but I can't fly with such feedback anymore.

It is a kind of variable force that occurs when you try to move the stick.

 

[Smollet]

2 часа назад, Vibora сказал:

Thank you for your report, please keep us informed, providing further feedback after your configuration changes.

How should a pilot feel? The hydraulic stop rod? Now on FFBeast, it looks like pushing into the arm in the opposite direction to the pilot's effort. The frequency of shocks is the same regardless of the speed of movement of the joystick (about 2 shocks per second)

[Vibora]

You should just feel the resistance to displacement in the stick, without any "shocks". We are investigating it and will try to find a solution ASAP, as there seems to be really an issue with FFB.

[muffler]

4 минуты назад, Vibora сказал:

You should just feel the resistance to displacement in the stick, without any "shocks". We are investigating it and will try to find a solution ASAP, as there seems to be really an issue with FFB.

Thank you for quick response! I hope you can solve it. If you need any additional information on the problem, I am ready to provide it.

Edited October 7, 2024 by muffler

[some1]

I observe the same issue with vpforce rhino. The resistance to displacement is not smooth, it's more like buffet shake.

[Smollet]

В 07.10.2024 в 15:00, Vibora сказал:

You should just feel the resistance to displacement in the stick, without any "shocks". We are investigating it and will try to find a solution ASAP, as there seems to be really an issue with FFB.

It seems to have gotten a little better after the last update. In a parking lot with the engine running, when moving the joystick, I still feel intermittent drag when moving. But they seem to have become weaker and less noticeable. In a normal flight, this is almost not felt. If I intensively pull the joystick along the pitch in flight to reach large angles of attack, the jerks are noticeable.

[fausete]

@Smollet hi, can you share your set up and the FFB configuration in the special menu options?

[Smollet]

В 08.11.2024 в 10:02, fausete сказал:

@Smollet hi, can you share your set up and the FFB configuration in the special menu options?

 

Edited November 10, 2024 by Smollet