Jester is getting really annoying

[Sylosis]

I guess I could change the title, but anyways, the fact of the matter the F-14 is one of the best module when it comes to everything except, at least for me, Jester.

First, he's dropping chaffs all the time no matter who is shooting who. Can be a friendly shooting an enemy and he'll drop chaffs. Therefore, any way to ask him to only handle flares while I take care of chaffs? Still haven't figured this out. I thought I had by looking at someone on Youtube that was saying how, but it doesn't work.

Also, Jester's incapacity to lock is really making it difficult to enjoy flying solo in the F-14. You can have an enemy aircraft at 15nm  at 12 o'clock and 30 000 ft and he'll say "No can do" when you ask to STT lock enemy in front. What am I not getting? What am I supposed to do different?

Edited June 27, 2023 by Sylosis

[near_blind]

3 hours ago, Sylosis said:

First, he's dropping chaffs all the time no matter who is shooting who. Can be a friendly shooting an enemy and he'll drop chaffs. Therefore, any way to ask him to only handle flares while I take care of chaffs? Still haven't figured this out. I thought I had by looking at someone on Youtube that was saying how, but it doesn't work.

No. You can set the ALE-39 such that you release chaff with the DLC button instead of flares, but Jester will still threat react as he deems appropriate. Alternatively you could remove jesters ability to dispense any counter measures, or you could make it so chaff dispensing is handled by the RWR, which is most likely going to be even more conservative than jester. 

 

 

3 hours ago, Sylosis said:

Also, Jester's incapacity to lock is really making it difficult to enjoy flying solo in the F-14. You can have an enemy aircraft at 15nm  at 12 o'clock and 30 000 ft and he'll say "No can do" when you ask to STT lock enemy in front. What am I not getting? What am I supposed to do different?

Need more information. Does your radar actually see the contact? Is it actually being provided over data link (bottom half symbology) rather than by the radar? Is the contact within the zero doppler filter or the main lobe clutter filter? Is the contact even within the scan zone?

Jester telling you he can't lock something usually means _the radar_ can't lock something. He's not smart enough to act as anything but a pass through. If the relative velocity of the contact is +/- 133 knots of ground speed and less than three degrees above the horizon, it's in the MLC filter and can't be seen. If the contact has less than +/- 100 knots of closure, then it's in the Zero Doppler Filter, and can't be seen. At 15 miles the actual area being scanned by your radar is deceptively narrow, especially in the vertical axis, and you should probably be thinking about transition to a close combat scanning mode such as PAL, or turning around to build space for another try.

Edited June 27, 2023 by near_blind

[Sylosis]

5 hours ago, near_blind said:

 

Need more information. Does your radar actually see the contact? Is it actually being provided over data link (bottom half symbology) rather than by the radar? Is the contact within the zero doppler filter or the main lobe clutter filter? Is the contact even within the scan zone?

Jester telling you he can't lock something usually means _the radar_ can't lock something. He's not smart enough to act as anything but a pass through. If the relative velocity of the contact is +/- 133 knots of ground speed and less than three degrees above the horizon, it's in the MLC filter and can't be seen. If the contact has less than +/- 100 knots of closure, then it's in the Zero Doppler Filter, and can't be seen. At 15 miles the actual area being scanned by your radar is deceptively narrow, especially in the vertical axis, and you should probably be thinking about transition to a close combat scanning mode such as PAL, or turning around to build space for another try.

 

It was visible in radar and I'm fairly certain it was not a DL contact, but to be perfectly honest it's possible that for the specific instance I have in mind, it was. But I really don't remember.

I was still able to lock it myself using the horizontal scanning so that makes me believe it was "lockable", but maybe these pilot radar modes are more efficient?

At the end of the day, it's just very common for Jester to reply "no can do" and if it's because the radar doesn't see contacts then I guess the F-14 radar is more <profanity> than I thought? I've always read it was super powerful even by today's standards. But my experience is that I severely struggle to lock stuff (or keep locks) almost everytime

 

 

[DD_Fenrir]

Don’t forget that ordering Jester to STT lock Enemy Ahead absolutely depends on him having previously run an IFF check on that contact and identified it as hostile; if it’s unknown you must use the alternative menu option that’s asks to lock unknown, or specific contact.

[draconus]

38 minutes ago, Sylosis said:

It was visible in radar and I'm fairly certain it was not a DL contact, but to be perfectly honest it's possible that for the specific instance I have in mind, it was. But I really don't remember.

I was still able to lock it myself using the horizontal scanning so that makes me believe it was "lockable", but maybe these pilot radar modes are more efficient?

At the end of the day, it's just very common for Jester to reply "no can do" and if it's because the radar doesn't see contacts then I guess the F-14 radar is more <profanity> than I thought? I've always read it was super powerful even by today's standards. But my experience is that I severely struggle to lock stuff (or keep locks) almost everytime

It takes time and skill to become proficient in combat. Same is needed to understand Tomcat capabilities and limitations of both radar and Jester.

Be sure to use "lock target ahead" option - this is for any contact ahead, instead of "lock enemy ahead" - this one is only for enemy after Jester already done IFF on the contact.

You can also use "lock specific target" where you can even choose DL target and Jester will attempt the lock.

Generally it's best to take over the radar whenever you get closer than 20nm and don't have the lock yet. First use PAL toward the general bandit direction as this is the mode with longest reach (around 15nm) then use others when approaching WVR (within 5nm). Check the pilot radar modes here:

https://www.heatblur.se/F-14Manual/general.html#pilot-lockon-mode-plm

[Comstedt86]

Lock specific target works very well I find, even vs D/L targets.

Usually Jester complains concerning locks are attributed to the limitations of the AWG-9.

Best bet would be to learn the RIO seat and AWG-9, dropping in the seat quickly when you need to do anything specific Jester can't do or can't do quickly enough.

[Sylosis]

On 6/27/2023 at 7:39 AM, draconus said:

It takes time and skill to become proficient in combat. Same is needed to understand Tomcat capabilities and limitations of both radar and Jester.

Be sure to use "lock target ahead" option - this is for any contact ahead, instead of "lock enemy ahead" - this one is only for enemy after Jester already done IFF on the contact.

You can also use "lock specific target" where you can even choose DL target and Jester will attempt the lock.

Generally it's best to take over the radar whenever you get closer than 20nm and don't have the lock yet. First use PAL toward the general bandit direction as this is the mode with longest reach (around 15nm) then use others when approaching WVR (within 5nm). Check the pilot radar modes here:

https://www.heatblur.se/F-14Manual/general.html#pilot-lockon-mode-plm

Yea ok I can definitely say I'm intermediate at best. But there are a few things with Jester that seem like contradictory behavior.

For example, he doesn't know who's friendly and who isn't but when you lock someone he will now suddenly know if it's friendly or not.

Other example, he'll drop chaffs like crazy whenever any missile is shot, but there will also be occasions where he won't bother and let you die.

I really just don't get Jester....

[near_blind]

1 hour ago, Sylosis said:

For example, he doesn't know who's friendly and who isn't but when you lock someone he will now suddenly know if it's friendly or not.

This can be attributed to a couple of things. You have to be in STT or TWS to get HAFU (Hostile, Ambiguous, Friendly, Unknown) symbology. If you're in TWS for stuff outside of visual range Jester is hitting the IFF interrogate button, reading returns off the DDD, and them correlating them with what he sees on the TID and manually selecting tracks and entering their HAFU. This is a process that takes a bit of time and if I had to guess he can get interrupted by other, higher priority tasks. The more stuff on the TID, the longer this will take.

When you go STT, depending on the range he's either only got a single IFF return to sort/assign, or if you're within ~40 miles or so, he's probably switching to the TCS and visually IDing the contact (your cue he's doing this is your TID going blank for a second or two). A word of caution is Jester is known to get confused if you're flying a mission where there's heavy overlap in aircraft available to each coalition (think you stumble upon a fight where F-16s, F-15s and F-14s are fighting... F-16s, F-15s and F-14s). 

 

1 hour ago, Sylosis said:

Other example, he'll drop chaffs like crazy whenever any missile is shot, but there will also be occasions where he won't bother and let you die.

What situation are you in where that's happening. I'd need to go experiment to speak conclusively, but my general experience with jester is

• Jester Sees Missile + RWR Warning = Chaff
• Jester Sees Missile - RWR Warning = Flares

He can make mistakes. Sometimes he doesn't see the missile. Sometimes there is some annoying behavior with the RWR in some certain edge cases that can mean jester sees a missile, but because the RWR isn't producing a launch warning he drops flares even if it's a radar guided missile. He's also more likely to make mistakes if it's a chaotic environment with RWR bleed over and lots of missiles going back and forth, but that's not unreasonable. 

[Sylosis]

On 6/30/2023 at 12:53 PM, near_blind said:

This can be attributed to a couple of things. You have to be in STT or TWS to get HAFU (Hostile, Ambiguous, Friendly, Unknown) symbology. If you're in TWS for stuff outside of visual range Jester is hitting the IFF interrogate button, reading returns off the DDD, and them correlating them with what he sees on the TID and manually selecting tracks and entering their HAFU. This is a process that takes a bit of time and if I had to guess he can get interrupted by other, higher priority tasks. The more stuff on the TID, the longer this will take.

When you go STT, depending on the range he's either only got a single IFF return to sort/assign, or if you're within ~40 miles or so, he's probably switching to the TCS and visually IDing the contact (your cue he's doing this is your TID going blank for a second or two). A word of caution is Jester is known to get confused if you're flying a mission where there's heavy overlap in aircraft available to each coalition (think you stumble upon a fight where F-16s, F-15s and F-14s are fighting... F-16s, F-15s and F-14s). 

 

What situation are you in where that's happening. I'd need to go experiment to speak conclusively, but my general experience with jester is

• Jester Sees Missile + RWR Warning = Chaff
• Jester Sees Missile - RWR Warning = Flares

He can make mistakes. Sometimes he doesn't see the missile. Sometimes there is some annoying behavior with the RWR in some certain edge cases that can mean jester sees a missile, but because the RWR isn't producing a launch warning he drops flares even if it's a radar guided missile. He's also more likely to make mistakes if it's a chaotic environment with RWR bleed over and lots of missiles going back and forth, but that's not unreasonable. 

The occasions where I have seen Jester not drop CMS is when I'm in a dogfight. My experience is that he actually rarely drops any CMS when shot at close range. 

Following your comment that would mean he "doesn't see" the missile but if so, that's a bit strange since you would think Jester is programmed to follow the enemy plane as much as possible. I mean I'm piloting the aircraft and I'm mostly able to keep visual and see the missiles coming to kill us.

[near_blind]

2 hours ago, Sylosis said:

The occasions where I have seen Jester not drop CMS is when I'm in a dogfight. My experience is that he actually rarely drops any CMS when shot at close range. 

Following your comment that would mean he "doesn't see" the missile but if so, that's a bit strange since you would think Jester is programmed to follow the enemy plane as much as possible. I mean I'm piloting the aircraft and I'm mostly able to keep visual and see the missiles coming to kill us.

It's hard to conclusively say without seeing the situation, but jester is fallible. 

He has a finite field of view, so he can't see everything at once, and moves around depending on what he's focusing on at the moment. For instance, If he's looking at the instrument console because he's reading off your airspeed or you asked him to flip a radar switch, he's probably not watching your opponent at that moment. If he's doing something inside the cockpit, if there are multiple bandits, if the bandit was occluded by the fuselage when they shot, all of these are possible scenarios for why he didn't respond to a shot. If jester doesn't call out the missile, it's likely he didn't see it. 

I wouldn't be surprised if there's also some slight randomization of the speed at which jester responds to things he does see. 

If I see a missile, or I hear jester call out a missile, or if I feel like I haven't dropped flares in a while, I'll generally drop some flares just to be safe. Flares are cheap, jets are expensive. Also keep in mind BFM is an inherently risky proposition. In the age of all aspect missiles the more aircraft you add to a merge, the closer the exchange ratio trends towards 1. 

[TomcatFan1976]

i think Jester is really limited in the RIO position. To put it nicely anyways. Whats really annoying is his constant lame jokes he rattles off during a dogfight, I mean come on, does he have to do that during a dogfight? I want a RIO, not a comedian in that situation...

[Velik]

The main issue for me is that Jester sets the wrong priority to targets. He can lock someone random damn far as the 1st target and miss a bandit in 30nm. And then put him as a 2nd to launch. Of course you have no time to fix it immediately. + dumb chaffs drop behavior. + too slow IFF check sometimes. So you dead.

The main operational range for AIM-54 in BVR with other fighters is 30-35nm.

But you have only options for 25nm and 50nm range set. PAL works till 20nm. While you're trying to force your blockhead to lock the target in STT he already lost it.  Meanwhile 120 is on the way.

[DD_Fenrir]

13 hours ago, Velik said:

The main issue for me is that Jester sets the wrong priority to targets. He can lock someone random damn far as the 1st target and miss a bandit in 30nm. And then put him as a 2nd to launch. Of course you have no time to fix it immediately. + dumb chaffs drop behavior. + too slow IFF check sometimes. So you dead.

You Dead if you rely on TWS and Jester. Why not go STT on the near target? It's a simple enough flick through the Jester Menu, should take less than 5 sec.

 

13 hours ago, Velik said:

The main operational range for AIM-54 in BVR with other fighters is 30-35nm.

But you have only options for 25nm and 50nm range set. 

Limitation of the AWG-9. It's literally a hardware restriction, a rotary switch in the RIO pit. Guess what ranges it is preset to....?

 

13 hours ago, Velik said:

PAL works till 20nm.

15nm actually. On a good day you sometimes get 18...

 

13 hours ago, Velik said:

While you're trying to force your blockhead to lock the target in STT he already lost it.  Meanwhile 120 is on the way.

You're attributing operating restrictions of the AWG-9 and it's limited abilty to track beaming targets in Pulse Dopplar modes to a fault in Jester.

The greater question is why you are putting yourself in AIM-120 WEZ and attempting to lock beaming targets. If the guys cranking - which is why the AWG-9 is struggling to find him - then it means it's likely he's already launched at you. So why are you still flying dumb into the missile and not defending?

Edited August 7, 2023 by DD_Fenrir