reported earlier Why does the radar lose lock all the time?

[Rongor]

When those AI Fulcrums come on the server I frequently visit, I often meet them for a head on encounter. While closing in I run full AB, gaining speed and altitude advantage, to hopefully launch my Fox3 earlier.
While being inbound to the enemy there are always several stages of losing radar contact. It's kind of unavoidable. I just have no idea why this is the case.
I'm running CRM-RWS in a 60° arc, carefully keeoing my antenna elevation matching his altitude. He is dead center, sometimes I even STT him although hit necessary. While we both fly straight, at some point my radar just drops the contact for no apparent reason. It can then take several seconds to make the target appear back again on screen, although my antenna is still covering his 3D position all the time.
Sometimes this is accompanied by antenna elevation jumping between two bands (see other reports on this). This may also trigger loss of contact yet it happens even when its not jumping or when both bands include the 3d location of the MiG. So bottom line, it's a mystery.

I get the target, I bug it into SAM. Several NM closer, contact just vanishes. Following the estimated trajectory with my TDC doesn't help anything. Long moments later the target appears back on screen. Sometimes you can bug it again, sometimes the bugging will just fail, while the target still remains visible and is closing in on you. It's driving me crazy. This repeats several times in a row, until you are finally in engagement range and happen to relock again in time to Fox3 him or he remains just gone from the screen although the radar antenna is exactly where he is in azimuth an elevation, yet of course he can track you and does launch.

What can we do to fix this?

Edited July 1, 2023 by Rongor

[Rongor]

I created a test scenario and you can watch here how it played out:
(fast forward to 0:40, when the head-on MiG appears in my RWS 40 range)

- 0:43 I bug the the contact, he is at 16k in 34 NM, antenna scans between floor and 35k

- 0:53 antenna jumping sets in, while my TDC is close to the bugged contact, the second antenna elevation band seems to cover floor up to his altitude, 16 k. He is climbing, range 30 NM

- 0:57 I move the TDC a bit, antenna jumping continues, alternating between floor to 18 and 05 to 35.
- 1:05 there is a second target appearing briefly behind him, yet I set up the mission with only one enemy, so I ignore it
- 1:08 I put the bug into STT, to get rid of the antenna jumping, he is at 16k, 25 NM

- 1:12 the whole track just vanishes. TDC shows vertical scan range between floor and 24, so he should 100% be in.
- 1:22 after 10 long seconds of zero contact, he appears again, at 17k, while TDC shows antenna elevation between 25k and 02k. Bugging causes the TDC switch to antenna elevation 36k and 14k. So I bug him again at 19 NM, while my antenna has its top elevation at 24

- 1:27 different to what I am usually doing I put him into STT again.

- 1:32 at 17 NM range, whole track vanishes again, last altitude was 18k, TDC antenna elevation shows 25k to 02k

- 1:35 he launches at me, while I don't have him on screen. My radar is blind, his obviously isn't.

- 1:39 after being blind for 7 seconds he appears again at 21k, my TDC shows a 23-06 antenna elevation band for his location

- 1:41 I have him bugged again at 13.4 NM

Radar could now keep him tracked. Mission ended with me being splashed yet my focus was on demonstrating the radar work, not on winning the engagement

Edited July 1, 2023 by Rongor

[QuiGon]

13 minutes ago, Rongor said:

- 1:12 the whole track just vanishes. TDC shows vertical scan range between floor and 24, so he should 100% be in.

I'm no radar expert, but to me it looks like you're putting the radar into a look-down situation there, thus making it loose the lock. Having said that ED is currently working on adjusting the radar simulation and look-down performance.

Edited July 1, 2023 by QuiGon

[darkman222]

ED is looking at the radar in the current updates. Lookdown penalty was removed, some people say. I would not rely on anything we know about the DCS F16 radar right now as it might change. I have a long conversation with ED developers about lock drops in direct messages. Also providing videos and tracks. Lock drops are even worse when playing on a server due to desyncing which comes into play too. Looks like you can reproduce the issue in single player too. I was told to hold my feedback back because the radar is being worked on currently.

Honestly I would not waste too much time for radar issues now as long the second stage of radar update by ED is not claimed to be complete.

[Nuggetz]

The inability to maintain radar lock especially in guns BFM has been very disappointing since two patches ago. That is with or without background clutter.

WhileI have enormous respect for the developers at ED I am crossing my fingers the radar update gets released very soon. 

[Rongor]

2 hours ago, QuiGon said:

I'm no radar expert, but to me it looks like you're putting the radar into a look-down situation there, thus making it loose the lock. Having said that ED is currently working on adjusting the radar simulation and look-down performance.

I can follow what you have in mind. Yet why do these contacts then reappear after a few seconds. Because their now closer distance increased radar returns again beyond the detectable threshold?

In the first occasion I lose contact at 24 NM (145.8k feet) distance while being around 6k feet above, equals around 2.4°
Reacquired at 19 NM (115k feet) distance while 8k above him, means 4°

In the second occasion I lose him at 17 NM distance (103k feet), while being roughly 7k feet above, this equals around 3.8°.
Reacquired at 13.5 NM distance (82k feet) while 5k feet above him, equals 3.5°

Both examples don't offer any consistency. First example has the target reappear at even bigger downward angle and second example isn't that much difference in both angles.

While in the first occasion, I admittedly also have the nose up, target shows at the F20 mark down in the HUD, yet in the 2nd occasion, we basically have level LOS, seeing the designation box in front of us in the HUD. Especially in this 2nd case, how could the radar possibly have problems to receive the returns?
Even when aircraft is nose up and the antenna is looking "down" compared to the aircraft datum, why would the antenna care? It's not like the radio waves bend towards Earth's center of gravity.

I am totally confused what to make out of all this. I am only in the beginning stages of learning how to A/A combat and one of the first things I learned was that being at higher altitude will provide decent advantage regarding missile range. When a radar can't detect stuff 4 ° below the aircraft datum, this kind of defeats the whole idea of going in high at BVR.