Iglas/Vikhrs very little damage against AI helicopters

[Noctrach]

As per title, Iglas and Vikhrs do unrealistically little damage to AI helicopters.

For Iglas, I've scored 4 direct hits and most AI will simply return to base. For Vikhrs in AA mode, it seems you need 3-4 direct hits before they finally go down. On the other hand, the 2A42 cannon with HE rounds can down a helicopter with as little as 2 hits.

Not sure if this should be in weapon bugs, AI bugs or Black Shark 3 bugs, but since it primarily affects this module I figured this would be the place.

Tracks attached.

VikhrVsCannon.trk IglaVsCannon.trk

[Flappie]

I believe the issue doesn't come from the Vikhr or the Igla, it comes from AI helicopters being impossible to kill.

I tested all AI helicopters resistance to MANPADS some months ago:

 

Here's a short track of me shooting down an L-39 with only one Vikhr.

Can you please confirm what I think using various aircraft as the target?

L-39_vs_Vikhr.trk

[Flappie]

A few more tracks of aircraft shot from behind: C-130, F-15C, Ka-50 III, Mi-8, UH-60A, OH-58A and Mosquito are all destroyed with a single Vihkr on the rear.

EDIT: The problem seems to come from the angle of the shot. I'll try different angles, make stats and report to devs.

F-15C_vs_Vikhr.trk C130_vs_Vikhr.trk Mosquito_vs_Vikhr.trk Ka-50 3_vs_Vikhr.trk Mi-8_vs_Vikhr.trk OH-58_vs_Vikhr.trk UH-60A_vs_Vikhr.trk

Edited July 14, 2023 by Flappie

[Noctrach]

On 7/14/2023 at 1:01 PM, Flappie said:

A few more tracks of aircraft shot from behind: C-130, F-15C, Ka-50 III, Mi-8, UH-60A, OH-58A and Mosquito are all destroyed with a single Vihkr on the rear.

EDIT: The problem seems to come from the angle of the shot. I'll try different angles, make stats and report to devs.

F-15C_vs_Vikhr.trk 62.05 kB · 0 downloads C130_vs_Vikhr.trk 63.03 kB · 0 downloads Mosquito_vs_Vikhr.trk 73.84 kB · 0 downloads Ka-50 3_vs_Vikhr.trk 64.11 kB · 0 downloads Mi-8_vs_Vikhr.trk 60.77 kB · 0 downloads OH-58_vs_Vikhr.trk 60.53 kB · 0 downloads UH-60A_vs_Vikhr.trk 62.21 kB · 0 downloads

 

Hey Flappie, thanks for your response

 

I tested some more and I'm seeing the same results, 3-4 Vikhrs frontally for most jets (F-16 and F-18 result in a pilot kill most of the time). After 2-3 Vikhrs most of them make it home safe with some damage on wings and nose-cone. But they almost always to go down with a single hit from rear aspect.

Helicopters have a similar story, 1 hit to the tail usually results in tail rotor/tail boom loss. Mi-24P is an exception, which continues flying after 12 (!) Vikhr hits from tail and side aspect. Happily flying along without a tail rotor, so I'll put that one as an exception to the rule (attached track)

Makes me think it's an interaction between the damage modeling in general, but also the armor penetration power of the air-burst Vikhr. It currently seems to have the same effect as small arms fire.

 

Iglas seem quite weak overall, as they don't even take down jets reliably on rear aspect hits. Helicopters seem to shrug off their hits like its nothing (everything except for Huey, which requires 2-3 to reliably destroy the tail rotor)

Mi24_ActualTank.trk

Edited July 16, 2023 by Noctrach

[Hobel]

vor einer Stunde schrieb Noctrach:

Hey Flappie, thanks for your response

 

I tested some more and I'm seeing the same results, 3-4 Vikhrs frontally for most jets (F-16 and F-18 result in a pilot kill most of the time). After 2-3 Vikhrs most of them make it home safe with some damage on wings and nose-cone. But they almost always to go down with a single hit from rear aspect.

Helicopters have a similar story, 1 hit to the tail usually results in tail rotor/tail boom loss. Mi-24P is an exception, which continues flying after 12 (!) Vikhr hits from tail and side aspect. Happily flying along without a tail rotor, so I'll put that one as an exception to the rule (attached track)

Makes me think it's an interaction between the damage modeling in general, but also the armor penetration power of the air-burst Vikhr. It currently seems to have the same effect as small arms fire.

 

Iglas seem quite weak overall, as they don't even take down jets reliably on rear aspect hits. Helicopters seem to shrug off their hits like its nothing (everything except for Huey, which requires 2-3 to reliably destroy the tail rotor)

has all this been tested against AI-controlled aircraft?

Note: you can also control these aircrafts yourself and then let the AI shoot at you with the respective weapons in order to thoroughly test the other side as well.

Edited July 16, 2023 by Hobel

[Noctrach]

1 hour ago, Hobel said:

has all this been tested against AI-controlled aircraft?

Note: you can also control these aircrafts yourself and then let the AI shoot at you with the respective weapons in order to thoroughly test the other side as well.

 

Yep, this bug is AI only from where I'm standing. In my very limited experience against players they universally go down in 1-2 hits depending on what systems get taken out.

If I let the AI Ka-50 shoot at me it pretty much disintegrates my Ka-50, no matter the aspect. It will pretty much always take out my tail and at least one engine. Same story with the Mi-8.

AI Ka-50s can't engage player aircraft with Vikhrs though so I am unable to test this.

Ka50_destroyed.trk Ka50_destroyed2.trk Ka50_destroyed3.trk Mi8_destroyed.trk Mi8_destroyed2.trk Mi8_partiallydestroyed.trk

Edited July 16, 2023 by Noctrach

[HansPeter1981]

Did that get ever fixed. I tryed to shoot down a AI AH-1 today, and it was flying still after 3 hits of Iglas from my blackshark. Also yesterday online K50 vs AI MI8... 1 igla and 30 rounds of the Autocannon barely got that thing to the ground.

Wonder if thats on EDs radar at all? After one year of reporting...

Edited August 26, 2024 by HansPeter1981

[flavnet]

Hello everyone. Just a simple question: how many Vikhrs missiles are needed to shoot down a CH-47? Because I fired 10 Vikhrs at a CH-47, all hits, and yet it still flew, maneuvered and the only effect was a little smoke. Not only that, but even shooting all the HE and AP rounds at it, the CH-47 still flew and maneuvered (even at speed!!!). I think the development team must have done some testing in this direction. If this is the desired effect... it seems ridiculous to me.