DCS: WWII Assets Pack - B-17G Livery Competition Template improvement Discussion

[Mike Busutil]

13 hours ago, Urbi said:

you have to be careful how you split the texture 1-2 and 3-4. the first is "B-17G_Fuzelage_1_D" the left of 1-2. "B-17G_Fuzelage_2_D" is the second. it is the right one of 1-2. "B-17G_Wing_Left_D" is the third and left of 3-4 and "B-17G_Wing_Rigth_D" is then the fourth and right of 3-4.

Thank you Urbi,

I think this is most likely my issue.

I edit the Photoshop files, I then save them as a BMP.

Then I drop this file into Dxtbmp and save as a DDS DXT3 file.

For the fuselage, I am saving this file as "B-17G_Fuzelage_1_D" and placing it in my skin folder with the description file.

I am then copying this file and naming it "B-17G_Fuzelage_2_D so now I have both fuselage files.

Is this incorrect?

 

[Awacs_bandog]

Urbi most of what you're doing at this point is a waste of time. Either submit something or let us actual skin makers work through the problem.


Essentially. Put up or shut up.

[Mach3DS]

[Mach3DS]

Because you asked nicely, I'm happy to provide more WIP shots.  I figure people like to see work happening.  Those who don't.  Oh well.  Let's not let this thread get highjacked.  I'm excited to see more B-17 Liveries from the rest of you!  It's finally going to get some love!  I'm especially waiting on Helles Bell to show his work!  So many!
 

Edited July 11, 2023 by Mach3DS

[II.JG1_Vonrd]

@Mach3DS... looking fantastic. Question, are you using roughmets? If so are you aware of Ninelines response to my question about whether it will be roughmets or the default speculars?

• right now assume the template is as it is right now.

I would hate to see such stellar work wasted.

[Mach3DS]

2 hours ago, II.JG1_Vonrd said:

@Mach3DS... looking fantastic. Question, are you using roughmets? If so are you aware of Ninelines response to my question about whether it will be roughmets or the default speculars?

• right now assume the template is as it is right now.

I would hate to see such stellar work wasted.

Thanks!  I'm using Roughmets.  I've been talking to 9L in DM's.  But no I was not aware of that response!  I"m going to keep this how it is.  It will not be modified to use SPECs.  So if need be, I'll just not enter the competition.  I'm ok with that.  I think the only real solution, is to have Roughmets implemented.  Yes, it will break the B-17s in some of the Campaigns.  Yes, those can be replaced with stand ins until they can be updated.  And yes, the default skin already has a great RM made by Megalax which could be used (I'm guessing he'd just hand it over).  But honestly, if they break, how much worse will they actually look?  IMHO, RM is the way to go.  Take the band aid off right now.  And move forward with all these new liveries.  Update the old ones.  Just do it. 

[II.JG1_Vonrd]

52 minutes ago, Mach3DS said:

I think the only real solution, is to have Roughmets implemented. 

Oh I ABSOLUTELY agree. Seems like most of the quality entries are using roughmets and they may be forced to implement them if those are the only good entries that they get.

Still, it was a challenge learning how to make the speculars work and it added to my skill quill. I might just leave mine as is with the specs unless they decide to go with roughmets.

[Mach3DS]

23 minutes ago, II.JG1_Vonrd said:

Oh I ABSOLUTELY agree. Seems like most of the quality entries are using roughmets and they may be forced to implement them if those are the only good entries that they get.

Still, it was a challenge learning how to make the speculars work and it added to my skill quill. I might just leave mine as is with the specs unless they decide to go with roughmets.

It's actually not too different that if you were to update it to RM format it would prob only be a slight variation of what you have now.  Just really make those Red Channels white.  There is an AO in the paint kit in one of the layers but it's baked the bottom side. I think what ever you do it will look good!  Let's see some WIPs!   

[BIGNEWY]

Folks I have tidied up the thread. 

Please treat each other with respect, if you can not be civil in your replies please do not post. 

if it continues warning points will be added.

thank you

[iFoxRomeo]

5 hours ago, Mach3DS said:

Because you asked nicely, I'm happy to provide more WIP shots.  I figure people like to see work happening.  Those who don't.  Oh well.  Let's not let this thread get highjacked.  I'm excited to see more B-17 Liveries from the rest of you!  It's finally going to get some love!  I'm especially waiting on Helles Bell to show his work!  So many!
 

 

Oh boy, that looks great.

The problem now will be that, sitting in the Mustang I will be looking at the Bombers instead of watching out for bogeys. 

[Art-J]

Mach3Ds's screen show exactly why livery duplicate is needed, and is not a "waste of time", contrary to Urbi's twisted argument, which doesn't make much sense really (I'll give him a benefit of doubt - language barrier?).  Warlord/Keefyboy's "Flak Eater" skin linked to previously was great in 2017 (DCS 2.0) when it was uploaded to User Files, but it's simply not compatible with DCS 2.8.xx now. This is how it looks in current version and this is why it needs to be redone by whoever wants to do it:

 

 

[II.JG1_Vonrd]

Well, I've got a disappointing issue. It seems that what you see in the Model Viewer doesn't match what you see in game at all when using speculars. I spent many hours tweaking the specs to get just the right look and reflectivity of the bare aluminum areas. I think it looked really good. (First picture)

Then I loaded the game and what I saw was not what I wanted at all. (second picture)

At this point, I don't want to spend the ridiculous amount of time it would take to tweak the specs by re-loading the game each time. I'm going for roughmets. I encourage all other entrants to use roughmets as well. Maybe that will force ED to make the change.  

Edited July 11, 2023 by II.JG1_Vonrd

[Mach3DS]

12 minutes ago, II.JG1_Vonrd said:

Well, I've got a disappointing issue. It seems that what you see in the Model Viewer doesn't match what you see in game at all when using speculars. I spent many hours tweaking the specs to get just the right look and reflectivity of the bare aluminum areas. I think it looked really good. (First picture)

Then I loaded the game and what I saw was not what I wanted at all. (second picture)

At this point, I don't want to spend the ridiculous amount of time it would take to tweak the specs by re-loading the game each time. I'm going for roughmets. I encourage all other entrants to use roughmets as well. Maybe that will force ED to make the change.  

 

Beautiful work!  Sadly, yes.  In order to make speculars work correctly, you need to either edit or simply DELETE the Model's JSON file.  Honestly, that JSON file is old and not needed.  Get rid of it and your specs will shine.  Literally.  This is part of the reason why ED should just implement Roughmets.  Get Mega to donate his.  Because otherwise everytime you update the sim, the file is replaced.  Rendering all the Specs to the old way.

[II.JG1_Vonrd]

1 hour ago, Mach3DS said:

DELETE the Model's JSON file.....  Get rid of it and your specs will shine.  Literally.

Yeah, I tried that but now the whole plane is glossy. Also, as you say, the json will just re-appear with every update.

And, thank you for the compliment!

[Mach3DS]

20 hours ago, II.JG1_Vonrd said:

Yeah, I tried that but now the whole plane is glossy. Also, as you say, the json will just re-appear with every update.

And, thank you for the compliment!

 

You're welcome!  I hope we hear back from ED with a concrete answer regarding the graphics.  Hopefully Roughmets will be the plan. 

[II.JG1_Vonrd]

Does anyone know how to have the prop dome show actual color when spinning? When static, it's black as shown. I have the b_17g_rotorblured_d.dds painted black and in the skin folder. I have these lines in the description lua 

    {"B-17G_RotorBlured", 0, "b_17g_rotorblured_d",false};
    {"B-17G_RotorBlured", 2, "b_17g_rotorblured_s",true};

but it's still showing white as shown. 

[Mike Busutil]

Are you saving the spinning files as dxt1? If so, try dxt5. 

[II.JG1_Vonrd]

9 minutes ago, Mike Busutil said:

Are you saving the spinning files as dxt1? If so, try dxt5. 

I am saving as:          DXT5         ARGB   8 bpp | interpolated alpha

[II.JG1_Vonrd]

Thanks Urbi

So it should have a roughmet?

    {"B17G_RotorBlured",  ROUGHNESS_METALLIC    ,    "b_17g_rotorblured_roughmet", false};

Can I just rename  "b_17g_rotorblured_S" to "b_17g_rotorblured_roughmet", and place the file in my skin folder with it noted as "false"? 

[Helles Belle]

3 hours ago, II.JG1_Vonrd said:

Thanks Urbi

So it should have a roughmet?

    {"B17G_RotorBlured",  ROUGHNESS_METALLIC    ,    "b_17g_rotorblured_roughmet", false};

Can I just rename  "b_17g_rotorblured_S" to "b_17g_rotorblured_roughmet", and place the file in my skin folder with it noted as "false"? 

When using roughmets, are you deleting the json file or modifying it?

 

Edited July 13, 2023 by Helles Belle

[Mach3DS]

40 minutes ago, Helles Belle said:

When using roughmets, are you deleting the json file or modifying it?

 

 

I've deleted mine.  But I don't think you need to.  Once you place the files in a folder named the same as the core texture zip file, the sim will only recognize Roughmets from there on out.  The trick is that you have to name them (for now, until ED makes them native) the same name as the DIFFUSE Texture name with the addition of "_Roughmet" at the end.  So like "Texturename_D_Roughmet.dds".  This lets the sim see the Roughmet.

[II.JG1_Vonrd]

With the modified json file the whole damn plane is shiny. I've stuck with the default json since it is what it will be after every update. I haven't tried deleting the json. This is why ED needs to get a handle on this and implement PBR / Roughmets. They initiate a skin competition with hands tied behind our backs. 

Sorry if I'm being harsh but this has been an extremely frustrating experience for me. I'm very serious about doing the best skins that I can.

[II.JG1_Vonrd]

1 hour ago, Helles Belle said:

When using roughmets, are you deleting the json file or modifying it?

 

 

See above post. Do you have any idea what I need to do to get the spinner dome to show as black? Please, no obscure "find your mistake"...

 

[Helles Belle]

35 minutes ago, Mach3DS said:

I've deleted mine.  But I don't think you need to.  Once you place the files in a folder named the same as the core texture zip file, the sim will only recognize Roughmets from there on out.  The trick is that you have to name them (for now, until ED makes them native) the same name as the DIFFUSE Texture name with the addition of "_Roughmet" at the end.  So like "Texturename_D_Roughmet.dds".  This lets the sim see the Roughmet.

Thanks for the explanation. I wish they would change it. I haven't deleted mine or will change it. Can the roughmets be put in the mod folder of the saved games folder?

13 minutes ago, II.JG1_Vonrd said:

With the modified json file the whole damn plane is shiny. I've stuck with the default json since it is what it will be after every update. I haven't tried deleting the json. This is why ED needs to get a handle on this and implement PBR / Roughmets. They initiate a skin competition with hands tied behind our backs. 

Sorry if I'm being harsh but this has been an extremely frustrating experience for me. I'm very serious about doing the best skins that I can.

Yeah, deleting it is not the solution until ED remove it from the game and use roughmets. Leaving it as is for now is the only way because as you say every update will put it back. This will only frustrate those that download skins and don't delete or modify the file every time. 

The only solution to enter the competition is to leave the json file as is and make skins that will use it. Fortunately olive drab/matt comes out ok. Unfortunately aluminium looks rubbish grey.

4 minutes ago, II.JG1_Vonrd said:

See above post. Do you have any idea what I need to do to get the spinner dome to show as black? Please, no obscure "find your mistake"...

 

Yeah, I have simply used the two files b_17g_rotorblured_d.ddsfile B_17G_ROTOR_D.dds and made them whatever colour I like.

Change the lua as required.

Edited July 13, 2023 by Helles Belle

[II.JG1_Vonrd]

11 minutes ago, Helles Belle said:

Yeah, I have simply used the two files b_17g_rotorblured_d.ddsfile B_17G_ROTOR_D.dds and made them whatever colour I like.

Change the lua as required.

Thank you for the direct recommendation! I'll give it a shot.