Laser bombing moving targets - how?

[WizzRD]

On 10/31/2023 at 9:04 AM, Zahnatom said:

it does if you enable cdes

CDES or a Re-Designation of a Target is totally not needed for dropping GBU´s. All a designation does is telling the Jet, and you, when to release the bomb. Once off the Jet it goes wherever the Laser is pointing to - not the designation.

 

Edited November 1, 2023 by WizzRD

[Zahnatom]

4 minutes ago, WizzRD said:

CDES or a Re-Designation of a Target is totally not needed for dropping GBU´s. All a designation does is telling the Jet, and you, when to release the bomb. Once off the Jet it goes wherever the Laser is pointing to - not the designation.

 

 

yeah i know.

the post i responded to specifically stated

Quote

What it doesnt do is move the designation with the point track.

 

[WizzRD]

On 7/9/2023 at 9:30 PM, dporter22 said:

Update:  I tried again just now and still can't figure out how to designate a moving target. I can get a point track which follows the target, but pressing designate either before or after getting a point track simply designates a point on the ground, not the moving target. Tried it with CDES boxed and unboxed and neither one designates a moving target.

Just in case you still don´t know how to do it, here some easy to follow steps:

- I our example we drop from 18000, giving us 35-38 seconds of flighttime for the bomb

- Guesstimate where your Target will be in 35 Seconds

- Designate that spot on the ground

- Drop your bomb when the time comes

- See the target come into view

- Enable point track on your Target

- Make sure your Laser has clear line of sight

- Watch the show

As you can see in the example video you have some leeway on where the Designation is placed as well as the time the bomb actually needs to strike the Target.

 

[GrEaSeLiTeNiN]

I think by now we all know that in summary:
- CDES isn't working properly at the moment to keep the diamond on the moving target before bomb release
- We were just hoping it got fixed in 2.9
- So for now we lead designate moving targets, we know how to do that, and we get that that's how it was done IRL as CDES wasn't reliable
- PTRK is working and will keep the laser crosshairs on the moving target
- Even if CDES gets fixed and works, it will not compute bomb fall line lead when a mover is designated because DCS does not model that in any of the targeting pods including newer pods like the litening/F18. You can still hit slow tanks (tested 15knts) but will likely miss fast APCs (tested 49knts) unless you lead designate. 

Edited November 1, 2023 by GrEaSeLiTeNiN

[Rainmaker]

Essentially.   Not leading is just asking for a miss anyway…which none of the aircraft in DCS offer so the technique is essentially the same across the board for all of them which all of them are capable of doing. 

[dorianR666]

7 hours ago, Zahnatom said:

i remember cdes working(at least with slewing manually)

yes that does work.

point track + cdes doesnt.

Edited November 1, 2023 by dorianR666

[CH4Pz]

23 hours ago, Zahnatom said:

i remember cdes working(at least with slewing manually)

In this track i just done, i dont designate ahead at all, i just have CDES boxed, the WP is a TGT, ptrk on, otrk is showing, and actively tracking target (with auto aq. press, within 7 miles) and to get the fall line all you have to do is TDC press and i got the shaq. Mans crazy 

F15 trak2.trk

[Moxica]

On 11/2/2023 at 11:41 AM, CH4Pz said:

In this track i just done, i dont designate ahead at all, i just have CDES boxed, the WP is a TGT, ptrk on, otrk is showing, and actively tracking target (with auto aq. press, within 7 miles) and to get the fall line all you have to do is TDC press and i got the shaq. Mans crazy 

F15 trak2.trk 1.99 MB · 2 downloads

That worked like a charm!  Thx! 

[GrEaSeLiTeNiN]

On 11/2/2023 at 6:41 PM, CH4Pz said:

In this track i just done, i dont designate ahead at all, i just have CDES boxed, the WP is a TGT, ptrk on, otrk is showing, and actively tracking target (with auto aq. press, within 7 miles) and to get the fall line all you have to do is TDC press and i got the shaq. Mans crazy 

F15 trak2.trk 1.99 MB · 5 downloads

Designation diamond is not following the target prior to release but the LGB can still hit slow movers.
Try APCs at 49 knts.   

Edited November 6, 2023 by GrEaSeLiTeNiN

[Hatman335]

The new logic in newer suites that you guys are referring to is the ability to create a moving target track with the acquisition cursor function. That will calculate a lead impact point and it will have the ability to automatically lead with the laser. This wasn't required to be effective though, Strikes dropped plenty of movers with the old school method.

[dporter22]

On 11/1/2023 at 7:39 AM, GrEaSeLiTeNiN said:

I think by now we all know that in summary:
- CDES isn't working properly at the moment to keep the diamond on the moving target before bomb release
- We were just hoping it got fixed in 2.9
- So for now we lead designate moving targets, we know how to do that, and we get that that's how it was done IRL as CDES wasn't reliable
- PTRK is working and will keep the laser crosshairs on the moving target
- Even if CDES gets fixed and works, it will not compute bomb fall line lead when a mover is designated because DCS does not model that in any of the targeting pods including newer pods like the litening/F18. You can still hit slow tanks (tested 15knts) but will likely miss fast APCs (tested 49knts) unless you lead designate. 

 

I'm confused about your last statement. The TGP in the F-18 and A-10 can track and continuously designate moving targets with a continuously updated bomb fall line/release cue.

That's the whole point of this thread, that the F-15E can't (until\unless they ever model a newer suite), while other modules can.

As has been discussed, in other modules there is no guesstimating of where you think a moving target will be in 30 seconds, no designating a point on the ground somewhere and hoping the target gets close, no switching back and forth or updating the designation point, etc. You simply get a point track and designate, and the TGP maintains it.

[GrEaSeLiTeNiN]

On 4/1/2024 at 12:57 AM, dporter22 said:

I'm confused about your last statement. The TGP in the F-18 and A-10 can track and continuously designate moving targets with a continuously updated bomb fall line/release cue.

That's the whole point of this thread, that the F-15E can't (until\unless they ever model a newer suite), while other modules can.

As has been discussed, in other modules there is no guesstimating of where you think a moving target will be in 30 seconds, no designating a point on the ground somewhere and hoping the target gets close, no switching back and forth or updating the designation point, etc. You simply get a point track and designate, and the TGP maintains it.

This was some time ago. IIRC, I think what I was trying to say is that if you try designating a fast moving vehicle say at 49knts in an F-18 with the litening, the LGB will likely miss. Though your bomb fall line/release cue is continuously being updated and the litening is nicely tracking the vehicle, the whole setup is only accurate at time of pickle for the moving target's current location (at time of pickle). There is no lead added or calculated in the sim to account for the fact that the fast vehicle would have travelled quite a distance between pickle and bomb impact. (I don't know how it is done in the real litening pod.) The bomb will try its best to follow the laser reflected on the moving vehicle and usually has enough energy to still hit slow targets like tanks but not fast vehicles. That's how I currently understand it.

Edited April 2 by GrEaSeLiTeNiN

[Moxica]

Another thing is that the TPOD seems to be living a life of it's own. When trying to designate moving target (CDES and PTRK) it jumps around to random points around the target area. And it is nothing there.

Edited April 14 by Moxica

[Rainmaker]

52 minutes ago, Moxica said:

Another thing is that the TPOD seems to be living a life of it's own. When trying to designate moving target (CDES and PTRK) it jumps around to random points around the target area. And it is nothing there.

 

That’s due to a long-standing bug where you can’t have axis inputs when designating. The work around is to lead the target and let the vehicle come to the crosshairs.