Need urgent explanation. I can't get power to take off.

[DmitriKozlowsky]

WTF! With engine at max throttle and max collective , no weapons,  and 40% fuel, I can't lift off. There is not enough power! 

What am I missing with new FM ?

[Therio]

I have exactly the same issue. Last time I flew it with the new FM, everything was fine…

[QuietQT]

It's a know issue I think they said it should be fixed in the next open beta update.

[Alpiinoo]

I have same issue. I can't takeoff with clean loadout.

[609_Relentov]

Once I changed the collective axis X and Y saturation back to 100% and reduced the fuel load to ~50% (with weapons), I was able to take off with full collective.  Hopefully this will be addressed so we get more power for take off/hover.

[Holbeach]

M model with 67% fuel (350 l) and 4 HOT, about 4200 lbs.

T/O and climb from S/L to 7000' at about 120 kts.

OK, but full load 4533 lb not possible.

Full main tank, 82%, 4 HOT. 4367 lb. T/O and possitive climb at 120 kts.

Full load fuel, main plus aux tank, 100%, 4 HOT, 4533 lb. MAX weight.

Difficult to get out of ground effect, but circle to the left to reduce pedal and attain 20 knots and a positive climb can be maintained at 110 kts.

..

Edited July 6, 2023 by Holbeach

[Kinkkujuustovoileipä]

9 hours ago, DmitriKozlowsky said:

WTF! With engine at max throttle and max collective , no weapons,  and 40% fuel, I can't lift off. There is not enough power! 

What am I missing with new FM ?

 

7 hours ago, Therio said:

I have exactly the same issue. Last time I flew it with the new FM, everything was fine…

Sounds like you are either in some really hot and high altitude, or you have a problem with your inputs.

[DmitriKozlowsky]

5 hours ago, Kinkkujuustovoileipä said:

 

Sounds like you are either in some really hot and high altitude, or you have a problem with your inputs.

Mission is Instant Action/Nevada/Cold Start Before start I set loadout to no missiles, no IR, and 40% fuel. My controls are fine. With engine at max power, and collective slowly raised for lift/off Gazelle has no power to lift/off, cannot hover IGE. Best it does is drag itself along ground a little. Devs messed up, and beta testers, if there were any, were bypassed. 

11 hours ago, QuietQT said:

It's a know issue I think they said it should be fixed in the next open beta update.

Devs relleased with FM known to have insufficient power to T/O. 

[razo+r]

2 minutes ago, DmitriKozlowsky said:

Mission is Instant Action/Nevada/Cold Start Before start I set loadout to no missiles, no IR, and 40% fuel. My controls are fine. With engine at max power, and collective slowly raised for lift/off Gazelle has no power to lift/off, cannot hover IGE. Best it does is drag itself along ground a little. Devs messed up, and beta testers, if there were any, were bypassed. 

1) Defueling doesn't decrease the weight: 

2) You are a beta tester aswell. You're using an open beta version after all.

 

[Jenrick]

2 hours ago, DmitriKozlowsky said:

Mission is Instant Action/Nevada/Cold Start

I haven't tried that particular mission, but the NTTR is on average a couple thousand feet above sea level.  Try it in the other maps that aren't so high and see if it works.

[razo+r]

7 minutes ago, Jenrick said:

I haven't tried that particular mission, but the NTTR is on average a couple thousand feet above sea level.  Try it in the other maps that aren't so high and see if it works.

The instant one lets you spawn at 1800ft with temp set to DCS standard, 20 degrees celsius.

[QuietQT]

3 hours ago, DmitriKozlowsky said:

Devs relleased with FM known to have insufficient power to T/O. 

From what I've read, it's an issue with fuel weight being too much or something. It was supposed to be fixed by the F-15E launch, but apparently that came sooner than they had anticipated and so it wasn't ready by then. That's my vague understanding from their discord.

 

Edit, through more reading it IS also an engine issue, but again they know about it and should be in an upcoming update

Edited July 6, 2023 by QuietQT

[Alpiinoo]

This module can't flyable anymore IMO.

[DmitriKozlowsky]

10 hours ago, razo+r said:

1) Defueling doesn't decrease the weight: 

2) You are a beta tester aswell. You're using an open beta version after all.

 

How can reducing fuel NOT reduce gross weight. Fuel weight is basic to GW. Is this a bug or a cockedup feature. Overall, this Gazelle update went south really badly. Both thumbs down.

[Kinkkujuustovoileipä]

5 hours ago, DmitriKozlowsky said:

How can reducing fuel NOT reduce gross weight. Fuel weight is basic to GW. Is this a bug or a cockedup feature. Overall, this Gazelle update went south really badly. Both thumbs down.

Because it's a bug. They happen. There was a lot of testing done on the Gazelle before it released, and yet still, bugs happen. That doesn't entitle you to act like an arsehole. If you don't like it, don't fly it and wait for the fixes to come out.

[heloguy]

It's a known bug.  If you use the mission editor to reduce fuel, it works fine.  If you use the re-arm/refuel panel in the mission, you're stuck with whatever fuel weight the mission editor assigned.  As they said, it's noted, and will be fixed.

[heloguy]

14 hours ago, Leop said:

Hello,

 

Try reinstalling DCS World - don't repair. My problem was fixed after that.

 

Ah cool, the easy fix.  Hopefully a patch/hotfix gets here before I decide to go that route.

[DmitriKozlowsky]

So I got it to fly. sort of from custom mission. But the FM is 'weird' Especcially IGE. It rolls uncontrollably when taking off, with rotors striking ground. When landing, a slow transition fro  OGE to IGE results in violent roll to left. Cyclic trim does not trim. Activating in flight to trim cyclic, does not work. TRIM switch is ON. 

At full power, with max throttle (overhead) turning off Starter Motor shuts down the engine! Thats messed up.

I don't know this module went from great to not so great. I don't get behavior of FM. Its unlike anything. Its suppoused be closer to UH-1H handling, except that pedal are opposite due to rorotr turn direction. Buts it is chaotic at best.  Used to be so good. Gazelle could be flown with just little bit of pressure on cyclic. Now thats all gone.

[RealDCSpilot]

1 hour ago, DmitriKozlowsky said:

Used to be so good. Gazelle could be flown with just little bit of pressure on cyclic.

That was all wrong in the first place. The whole FM wasn't even helicopter-like. Be patient, wait for the fix.

[Kinkkujuustovoileipä]

7 hours ago, DmitriKozlowsky said:

So I got it to fly. sort of from custom mission. But the FM is 'weird' Especcially IGE. It rolls uncontrollably when taking off, with rotors striking ground. When landing, a slow transition fro  OGE to IGE results in violent roll to left. Cyclic trim does not trim. Activating in flight to trim cyclic, does not work. TRIM switch is ON. 

At full power, with max throttle (overhead) turning off Starter Motor shuts down the engine! Thats messed up.

I don't know this module went from great to not so great. I don't get behavior of FM. Its unlike anything. Its suppoused be closer to UH-1H handling, except that pedal are opposite due to rorotr turn direction. Buts it is chaotic at best.  Used to be so good. Gazelle could be flown with just little bit of pressure on cyclic. Now thats all gone.

1) The hover trim state is cyclic aft and left. Position the cyclic in the correct place before lifting off.

2) The 'violent roll' is the effect of flapback/blowback and the transition into/out of 'clean' air. The momentary dissymmetry of lift across the forward->rear of the rotor disc is translated into a roll due to gyroscopic precession.

3) Don't turn off the starter motor then. It's probably a bug, and will get fixed.

4) It's chaotic only because you don't understand it, and seem to refuse to adapt to the handling characteristics of a small, light helicopter.

[DmitriKozlowsky]

Whenever I am away from DC helicopters. I reaquaint myself with UH-1H. UH flies fine, so my controls all work. KA-50 flies fine, as before. AH-64D is behaving fine.  Gazelle is now so different, that I cant tell what its doing.  I need almost full right pedal deflection to keep from spinning when it leaves ground. Before may be a quarter right pedal or so, kept torque in check.  Combined with sudden violent roll to left , makes take offs somewhat difficult. Of few times, with new FM , where I touched down on ground gently, there is a sudden pitch forward that has to be arrested, as if helicopter was going excessively fast forward at touch down. Then it rocks like a rocking chair. Its nuts.

[MAXsenna]

5 hours ago, DmitriKozlowsky said:

Whenever I am away from DC helicopters. I reaquaint myself with UH-1H. UH flies fine, so my controls all work. KA-50 flies fine, as before. AH-64D is behaving fine.  Gazelle is now so different, that I cant tell what its doing.  I need almost full right pedal deflection to keep from spinning when it leaves ground. Before may be a quarter right pedal or so, kept torque in check.  Combined with sudden violent roll to left , makes take offs somewhat difficult. Of few times, with new FM , where I touched down on ground gently, there is a sudden pitch forward that has to be arrested, as if helicopter was going excessively fast forward at touch down. Then it rocks like a rocking chair. Its nuts.

Dude! We just got a completely brand new FM!!!
Have some patience, the devs are on it and will fix this. My only complaint now is the "slow" update cycle of DCS! Just kidding.
The new FM is fantastic! It's soooo easy to plink tanks on the fly in SP now! Auto hoover? Who cares, it's not needed if you have an old spare joystick.
As for the starter motor, you were never told to turn it off in the cold start training, so I guess you've been a naughty boy and read the manual!

As for everyone else. The Gazelle really deserves two joysticks. One to fly with that is NOT self centering and stays in position. (Actually, any helo in DCS deserves this. Get a cheap one for modding, you won't regret it. Trust me!). And one for the targeting. Why? Because then you can easily fly from the co-pilot seat and shoot tanks at the same time. It takes some practice at night I must admit.

Cheers!

 

 

 

[RealDCSpilot]

5 hours ago, MAXsenna said:

Auto hoover? Who cares,

Hehe yes. I'm currently using Mi-24 hit and run tactics. Fly towards the target, check range finder for 4300 meters, fire HOT3 and keeping the target in the sights until the torpedo crawls into it's target. Then break away...

[DmitriKozlowsky]

16 hours ago, MAXsenna said:

Dude! We just got a completely brand new FM!!!
Have some patience, the devs are on it and will fix this. My only complaint now is the "slow" update cycle of DCS! Just kidding.
The new FM is fantastic! It's soooo easy to plink tanks on the fly in SP now! Auto hoover? Who cares, it's not needed if you have an old spare joystick.
As for the starter motor, you were never told to turn it off in the cold start training, so I guess you've been a naughty boy and read the manual!

As for everyone else. The Gazelle really deserves two joysticks. One to fly with that is NOT self centering and stays in position. (Actually, any helo in DCS deserves this. Get a cheap one for modding, you won't regret it. Trust me!). And one for the targeting. Why? Because then you can easily fly from the co-pilot seat and shoot tanks at the same time. It takes some practice at night I must admit.

Cheers!

 

 

 

"The new FM is fantastic!"  DUDE! WTF r u talking about. This new FM is terrible. Its chaos. An uncontrollable, utterly unpredictable mess. I have uncontrolled , uncorrectable, violent , fast, roll to left. That comes in at random times, for no explanation. I have chronic LTE 3/4 of attempted flights, and 1/2 flights I have unexplained pedal reversal.  With empty helicopter with 30% fuel. Its crazy. Trim is slow, trim cancel is violent, not smooth as it should be. Yes its a small helicopter but it behaves like a dragonfly in a hurricane on std day with 5 knot wind.

[MAXsenna]

"The new FM is fantastic!"  DUDE! WTF r u talking about. This new FM is terrible. Its chaos. An uncontrollable, utterly unpredictable mess. I have uncontrolled , uncorrectable, violent , fast, roll to left. That comes in at random times, for no explanation. I have chronic LTE 3/4 of attempted flights, and 1/2 flights I have unexplained pedal reversal.  With empty helicopter with 30% fuel. Its crazy. Trim is slow, trim cancel is violent, not smooth as it should be. Yes its a small helicopter but it behaves like a dragonfly in a hurricane on std day with 5 knot wind.

Very strange then that I just flew the first mission in the included campaign, and killed four enemies with HOTs without hovering.
Well, you do you. It will of course get even better, but it's so much better now. What can I say.

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