Avio Posted August 17, 2023 Posted August 17, 2023 Is it correct that just after JFS start, the jet should be powered enough to allow for call to ATC for startup? Can't seem to do that. It is only after starting up one engine that the UFC can be started to allow for making calls to ATC.
Rudel_chw Posted August 17, 2023 Posted August 17, 2023 59 minutes ago, Avio said: Is it correct that just after JFS start, the jet should be powered enough to allow for call to ATC for startup? It is correct, as per the real aircraft. You can request Ground Power to the ground crew, then you can use the radio before starting engines. 2 For work: iMac mid-2010 of 27" - Core i7 870 - 6 GB DDR3 1333 MHz - ATI HD5670 - SSD 256 GB - HDD 2 TB - macOS High Sierra For Gaming: 34" Monitor - Ryzen 3600 - 32 GB DDR4 2400 - nVidia RTX2080 - SSD 1.25 TB - HDD 10 TB - Win10 Pro - TM HOTAS Cougar Mobile: iPad Pro 12.9" of 256 GB
WizzRD Posted August 18, 2023 Posted August 18, 2023 18 hours ago, Avio said: Is it correct that just after JFS start, the jet should be powered enough to allow for call to ATC for startup? Strike Eagle Pilots do not call ATC before startup. 3
YoYo Posted August 18, 2023 Posted August 18, 2023 (edited) 8 minutes ago, WizzRD said: Strike Eagle Pilots do not call ATC before startup. Sorry, it cant be true . Its normal process for every plane, civil or military. Pilot always needs a contact with ATC or ground crew to fire his engines. Edited August 18, 2023 by YoYo Webmaster of http://www.yoyosims.pl Win 10 64, i9-13900 KF, RTX 5090 32Gb OC, RAM 64Gb Corsair Vengeance LED OC@3600MHz,, 3xSSD+3xSSD M.2 NVMe, Predator XB271HU res.2560x1440 27'' G-sync, Sound Blaster Z + 5.1, TiR5, [MSFS, P3Dv5, DCS, RoF, Condor2, IL-2 CoD/BoX] VR fly only: Meta Quest Pro
razo+r Posted August 18, 2023 Posted August 18, 2023 13 minutes ago, YoYo said: Sorry, it cant be true . Its normal process for every plane, civil or military. Pilot always needs a contact with ATC or ground crew to fire his engines. Civilian don't have to if they go VFR. IFR yes, contact prior to start required. Don't know about military procedure. 1
RaisedByWolves Posted August 18, 2023 Posted August 18, 2023 Contacting clearance or ground prior to engine start is not required every time in civil aviation- when IFR. It’s typically stated in the aerodromes ATISBroadcast or in the clearance. This typically occurs if there are flow control procedures in effect and or they have given the crew an expect departure time and specifically state- contact Xxx.xx five minutes prior to engine start or something similar. 2
Rainmaker Posted August 18, 2023 Posted August 18, 2023 (edited) 36 minutes ago, YoYo said: Sorry, it cant be true . Its normal process for every plane, civil or military. Pilot always needs a contact with ATC or ground crew to fire his engines. False. ATC is not a requirement. They are aware you have a flight plan. And you have a ground person in visual contact for starting. The whole DCS ‘request startup’ thing is not relevant to US ops for fighters. Edited August 18, 2023 by Rainmaker 3
YoYo Posted August 18, 2023 Posted August 18, 2023 (edited) 39 minutes ago, Rainmaker said: False. ATC is not a requirement. They are aware you have a flight plan. And you have a ground person in visual contact for starting. The whole DCS ‘request startup’ thing is not relevant to US ops for fighters. Not False. There is always communication with an outsider. It should be an option as Ground Crew, which in turn is linked to ground control (tower). So it's not like the pilot gets in and starts everything without permission and control. 1 hour ago, razo+r said: Civilian don't have to if they go VFR. IFR yes, contact prior to start required. Don't know about military procedure. If you take off from VFR in your backyard, yes, but I know such airports even grass firld that the traffic is so heavy that you should ask so as not to stand in line for half a day later. Btw. Of course, I agree that to make it more relatable, a ground crew member should be visible in DCS on the airfield, something like we have in Super Carrier, who signals subsequent actions with his hands. Now we have only this "ATC". Edited August 18, 2023 by YoYo Webmaster of http://www.yoyosims.pl Win 10 64, i9-13900 KF, RTX 5090 32Gb OC, RAM 64Gb Corsair Vengeance LED OC@3600MHz,, 3xSSD+3xSSD M.2 NVMe, Predator XB271HU res.2560x1440 27'' G-sync, Sound Blaster Z + 5.1, TiR5, [MSFS, P3Dv5, DCS, RoF, Condor2, IL-2 CoD/BoX] VR fly only: Meta Quest Pro
Jetguy06 Posted August 18, 2023 Posted August 18, 2023 14 minutes ago, YoYo said: If you take off from VFR in your backyard, yes, but I know such airports even grass firld that the traffic is so heavy that you should ask so as not to stand in line for half a day later. I'm not sure where you're located, but in Baton Rouge (Class C airspace), I've always flown off the south ramp, flying Cessnas, and you do NOT have to contact ATC to start your aircraft, if you're flying VFR. You can even taxi around the entire south ramp without talking to ATC because the entire ramp is a non-movement area (or a movement area, I get the two backwards). If you want to enter onto an actual taxiway, however, you need to contact ATC. 2
razo+r Posted August 18, 2023 Posted August 18, 2023 31 minutes ago, YoYo said: If you take off from VFR in your backyard, yes, but I know such airports even grass firld that the traffic is so heavy that you should ask so as not to stand in line for half a day later. And I know international airports that don't require VFR traffic to contact ATC for startup. So the answer in the end is: It depends. 1
Rainmaker Posted August 18, 2023 Posted August 18, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, YoYo said: Not False. There is always communication with an outsider. It should be an option as Ground Crew, which in turn is linked to ground control (tower). So it's not like the pilot gets in and starts everything without permission and control. If you take off from VFR in your backyard, yes, but I know such airports even grass firld that the traffic is so heavy that you should ask so as not to stand in line for half a day later. Btw. Of course, I agree that to make it more relatable, a ground crew member should be visible in DCS on the airfield, something like we have in Super Carrier, who signals subsequent actions with his hands. Now we have only this "ATC". You would think that maybe I did this stuff for a living and might have wayyy more knowledge than you on this? Just maybe?!? Aircrew owns the aircraft. The ground crew is a safety assurance measure. And no, carrier ops is completely different than normal mil rules with regards to taxiing and movement. Just to sort out fact from fiction. Edited August 18, 2023 by Rainmaker 4
YoYo Posted August 18, 2023 Posted August 18, 2023 2 hours ago, Rainmaker said: And no, carrier ops is completely different than normal mil rules with regards to taxiing and movement. Just to sort out fact from fiction. I think it's obvious that the crew on an aircraft carrier has different tasks and there is a completely different division into such a functions, I think that this does not need to be explained to anyone and probably no one in their right mind questions it here. I wrote about 3D models and animations if you need clarification. Webmaster of http://www.yoyosims.pl Win 10 64, i9-13900 KF, RTX 5090 32Gb OC, RAM 64Gb Corsair Vengeance LED OC@3600MHz,, 3xSSD+3xSSD M.2 NVMe, Predator XB271HU res.2560x1440 27'' G-sync, Sound Blaster Z + 5.1, TiR5, [MSFS, P3Dv5, DCS, RoF, Condor2, IL-2 CoD/BoX] VR fly only: Meta Quest Pro
cw4ogden Posted September 14, 2023 Posted September 14, 2023 On 8/18/2023 at 10:21 AM, YoYo said: Not False. There is always communication with an outsider. It should be an option as Ground Crew, which in turn is linked to ground control (tower). So it's not like the pilot gets in and starts everything without permission and control. As a civil and military pilot in the U.S. and worldwide, I can also confirm that there is no requirement to call anyone prior to starting your engines. The only exception was when operating at U.S. Air Force bases. There is no FAR or military regulation requiring communication to start your engines. I've seen in in the Area Planning manual as procedure for specific airfields, almost always U.S. Air Force, but otherwise and for 99% of all flights, (can't speak for the airlines) there is no requirement to call anyone until you are ready for clearance, and or taxi. 3
SloppyDog Posted September 15, 2023 Posted September 15, 2023 On 8/18/2023 at 12:14 PM, WizzRD said: Strike Eagle Pilots do not call ATC before startup. They have the special 'Pete Mitchel" clearance. They can take a jet to a spin anytime, anywhere, with no fear of reprisal or court martial. They are that good. 1
Akrescue130 Posted September 17, 2023 Posted September 17, 2023 On 9/14/2023 at 12:09 PM, cw4ogden said: As a civil and military pilot in the U.S. and worldwide, I can also confirm that there is no requirement to call anyone prior to starting your engines. The only exception was when operating at U.S. Air Force bases. There is no FAR or military regulation requiring communication to start your engines. I've seen in in the Area Planning manual as procedure for specific airfields, almost always U.S. Air Force, but otherwise and for 99% of all flights, (can't speak for the airlines) there is no requirement to call anyone until you are ready for clearance, and or taxi. Can also confirm. Civilian side I've never been required to request start clearance, but every Air Force base I've launched from has always been requesting start clearance from ground or clearance delivery depending on the flight plan 1
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