leg5840 Posted August 18, 2023 Posted August 18, 2023 When checking Nozzle open & close by operating the ENG CONTR s/w on the ground, there is no sound of Exhaust nozzle operating inside the cockpit. F2 View, other F-15E's Nozzle sounds are very audible. However, the nozzle sound of the player's aircraft cannot be heard inside the cockpit. Hear in Helmet is active. I know sound is currently WIP, but I'm leaving it on the forums because I'm sure it's an issue and I'm concerned it'll be missing in a patch.
Nealius Posted August 18, 2023 Posted August 18, 2023 Most likely due to Hear in Helmet, since it's replicating earplugs+helmet. 1
Rainmaker Posted August 18, 2023 Posted August 18, 2023 It won't be the case as it's not realistic anyway. 3
leg5840 Posted August 18, 2023 Author Posted August 18, 2023 3 hours ago, Rainmaker said: It won't be the case as it's not realistic anyway. As a result of the test, the nozzle actuators sound is heard when the canopy is open, but not heard when it is closed. It has nothing to do with whether "Hear in Helmet" is checked or not. As I was doing the F-15's run-up in the cockpit, I could clearly hear the nozzle actuator. Whether it's one engine or both engines, even with a headset and earplugs on. I may be sensitive, but do you have any plans to implement it? If this doesn't fit the reality RAZBAM envisions, I just hope the information I've provided has been helpful. 3 hours ago, Nealius said: Most likely due to Hear in Helmet, since it's replicating earplugs+helmet. Testing again, it had nothing to do with the Hear in Helmet option. 1
Rainmaker Posted August 18, 2023 Posted August 18, 2023 5 hours ago, leg5840 said: As a result of the test, the nozzle actuators sound is heard when the canopy is open, but not heard when it is closed. It has nothing to do with whether "Hear in Helmet" is checked or not. As I was doing the F-15's run-up in the cockpit, I could clearly hear the nozzle actuator. Whether it's one engine or both engines, even with a headset and earplugs on. I may be sensitive, but do you have any plans to implement it? If this doesn't fit the reality RAZBAM envisions, I just hope the information I've provided has been helpful. Testing again, it had nothing to do with the Hear in Helmet option. You do not hear the actuators in the real jet. Just as I said in my initial post above. 2
leg5840 Posted August 18, 2023 Author Posted August 18, 2023 30 minutes ago, Rainmaker said: You do not hear the actuators in the real jet. Just as I said in my initial post above. No.. I heard it well.. Are my ears sensitive?
FusRoPotato Posted August 18, 2023 Posted August 18, 2023 (edited) 10 hours ago, leg5840 said: As a result of the test, the nozzle actuators sound is heard when the canopy is open, but not heard when it is closed. It has nothing to do with whether "Hear in Helmet" is checked or not. As I was doing the F-15's run-up in the cockpit, I could clearly hear the nozzle actuator. Whether it's one engine or both engines, even with a headset and earplugs on. I may be sensitive, but do you have any plans to implement it? If this doesn't fit the reality RAZBAM envisions, I just hope the information I've provided has been helpful. Testing again, it had nothing to do with the Hear in Helmet option. Unfortunately, this is a problem that has existed throughout most modules in DCS. It's just how they chose to build their sound. A lot of it is based on video and sound recording by devices that don't handle loud noises very well, thus never really pick up the finer details. On top of that, they don't really use any kind of gain logic per distance and altitude, but instead try to force it by specifying the ranges you hear through min and max values. Any time a canopy or door is closed, all outside sounds are reduced in gain and range at the same time, when in reality it would probably only be gain and some filtering to a mich slighter degree. A lot of effects played in cockpit won't reach much beyond 100m except for explosions. I've done a bit of testing on this with various aircraft set to invulnerable and taking off past/through a field of enemy soldiers so I could hear their gunfire. Usually, gunfire decreases in volume to a point where it disappears once the soldier is about 100 meters away. On aircraft functions, many sounds will drop off to zero at just 10 meters, not exactly how audio works IRL. 5 hours ago, Rainmaker said: You do not hear the actuators in the real jet. Just as I said in my initial post above. Well, a lot of people are playing this module without 'hear like in helmet', so a lot of sounds aren't intended to be realistically experienced anyways. Further, how many F-15 pilots have taken off or exercised those actuators with their helmet off and canopy closed? until someone decides to use very high-quality audio capturing equipment inside a cockpit during takeoff, I don't think anyone will have a valid point of argument on whether or not this sound can be heard. There may even be some pilots who've been in this position, but simply don't have good enough ears. If someone really wants to hear this sound because they want to, not because they should, there might be an easy way to mod the game for it. I'm assuming these are the sound files and sdefs: Aircrafts/Engines/F100-PW-229/e_F15E_cenc_close.sdef wave: Effects/Aircrafts/Engines/F100-PW-229/e_F15E_cenc_close Aircrafts/Engines/F100-PW-229/e_F15E_cenc_open.sdef wave: Effects/Aircrafts/Engines/F100-PW-229/e_F15E_cenc_open And an example sdef would probably look like user/Saved Games/DCS.openbeta/Sounds/sdef/Aircrafts/Engines/F100-PW-229/e_F15E_cenc_close.sdef wave = "Effects/Aircrafts/Engines/F100-PW-229/e_F15E_cenc_close" inner_radius = 1 outer_radius = 100 gain = 1 lowpass = 1000.0 And you'd play with those values till it sounds how you like it, but you have to exit and reload the entire game to hear the changes. Edited August 18, 2023 by FusRoPotato 1
Rainmaker Posted August 18, 2023 Posted August 18, 2023 (edited) 14 minutes ago, FusRoPotato said: Unfortunately, this is a problem that has existed throughout most modules in DCS. It's just how they chose to build their sound. A lot of it is based on video and sound recording by devices that don't handle loud noises very well, thus never really pick up the finer details. On top of that, they don't really use any kind of gain logic per distance and altitude, but instead try to force it by specifying the ranges you hear through min and max values. Any time a canopy or door is closed, all outside sounds are reduced in gain and range at the same time, when in reality it would probably only be gain and some filtering to a mich slighter degree. A lot of effects played in cockpit won't reach much beyond 100m except for explosions. I've done a bit of testing on this with various aircraft set to invulnerable and taking off past/through a field of enemy soldiers so I could hear their gunfire. Usually, gunfire decreases in volume to a point where it disappears once the soldier is about 100 meters away. On aircraft functions, many sounds will drop off to zero at just 10 meters, not exactly how audio works IRL. Well, a lot of people are playing this module without 'hear like in helmet', so a lot of sounds aren't intended to be realistically experienced anyways. Further, how many F-15 pilots have taken off or exercised those actuators with their helmet off and canopy closed? until someone decides to use very high-quality audio capturing equipment inside a cockpit during takeoff, I don't think anyone will have a valid point of argument on whether or not this sound can be heard. There may even be some pilots who've been in this position, but simply don't have good enough ears. If someone really wants to hear this sound because they want to, not because they should, there might be an easy way to mod the game for it. I'm assuming these are the sound files and sdefs: Aircrafts/Engines/F100-PW-229/e_F15E_cenc_close.sdef wave: Effects/Aircrafts/Engines/F100-PW-229/e_F15E_cenc_close Aircrafts/Engines/F100-PW-229/e_F15E_cenc_open.sdef wave: Effects/Aircrafts/Engines/F100-PW-229/e_F15E_cenc_open And an example sdef would probably look like user/Saved Games/DCS.openbeta/Sounds/sdef/Aircrafts/Engines/F100-PW-229/e_F15E_cenc_close.sdef wave = "Effects/Aircrafts/Engines/F100-PW-229/e_F15E_cenc_close" inner_radius = 1 outer_radius = 100 gain = 1 lowpass = 1000.0 And you'd play with those values till it sounds how you like it, but you have to exit and reload the entire game to hear the changes. I mean, why would I need audio equipment? Lol. You dont think we experience things outside of a pilots perspective of having helmet on? I made the statement I made, for a reason, based on RL experience with the jet. So yes, I can say things like that with actual experience to the scenario. And go right ahead and ‘mod’ things however you wish, but external and internal sound files are different. And that justification is far from a ‘bug’ as reported in this forum, so there’s that. Edited August 18, 2023 by Rainmaker 3
FusRoPotato Posted August 18, 2023 Posted August 18, 2023 4 minutes ago, Rainmaker said: I mean, why would I need audio equipment? Lol. You dont think we experience things outside of a pilots perspective of having helmet on? I made the statement I made, for a reason, based on RL experience with the jet. So yes, I can say things like that with actual experience to the scenario. Sure, and share with us your credentials and results from a hearing test so that I can subsequently ignore it because not everyone cares for your version of a realistic experience anyways. Just now, Ramses823 said: Some people want to turn this into a arcade game, this isn't war thunder... Well thankfully some people are given allowance to so long as it doesn't affect others.
Ramses823 Posted August 18, 2023 Posted August 18, 2023 (edited) 3 minutes ago, FusRoPotato said: Sure, and share with us your credentials and results from a hearing test so that I can subsequently ignore it because not everyone cares for your version of a realistic experience anyways. Well thankfully some people are given allowance to so long as it doesn't affect others. My credentials is I respect when someone who actually flew in the aircraft says you can't hear it in the airplane what more is to be said, DCS is supposed to realistically simulate military aircraft I don't want to fly a aircraft with a bunch of arcade sounds ask yourself what does it mean to accurately simulate something Edited August 18, 2023 by Ramses823 2
Rainmaker Posted August 18, 2023 Posted August 18, 2023 18 minutes ago, FusRoPotato said: Sure, and share with us your credentials and results from a hearing test so that I can subsequently ignore it because not everyone cares for your version of a realistic experience anyways. Well thankfully some people are given allowance to so long as it doesn't affect others. Again…not a bug. And my credentials are I spent a lot of time with the real thing. 1
FusRoPotato Posted August 18, 2023 Posted August 18, 2023 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Ramses823 said: My credentials is I respect when someone who actually flew in the aircraft says you can't hear it in the airplane what more is to be said, DCS is supposed to realistically simulate military aircraft I don't want to fly a aircraft with a bunch of arcade sounds ask yourself what does it mean to accurately simulate something I respect people who flew the aircraft as well, I just don't always agree with them. They aren't sound engineers, radar engineers, flight model developers, weapons designers, or any host of other things far beyond their expertise unless they break off into that direction later on. If you want to ask whether or not someone, who's ears were probably destroyed by their job, can hear certain high-pitched things? I'd say their experience is probably not relevant regardless of what honor you want to place on it. My explanation to OP was to back the idea that this isn't really a bug. It just generally how the game's sound is designed, and they might be able to tweak it if they want to. That has nothing to do with your experience. Whether or not you want an arcade game is completely irrelevant. If you want to discuss full realism, perhaps the realistic approach is to simulate what's heard by someone who can't hear very well. They all are supposed to wear headphones around the plane for a reason. Edited August 18, 2023 by FusRoPotato
Rainmaker Posted August 18, 2023 Posted August 18, 2023 This about the silliest arguments I have seen here when it comes to things. Lol. Anyhoo, pretty sure its all moot anyway. Mod all you want, but what’s ‘accurate’ won’t change any of what’s already been stated above. About a handful of actual SMEs have already weighed in on this topic before. Lol. 3
strikeeagle Posted August 19, 2023 Posted August 19, 2023 (edited) What Rainmaker said Even if you sat in the jet w/out headphones/helmet, the ECS and inlet is so loud, you can’t hear the CENC exhaust. Especially if the crew chief isn’t connected to the ground cord. Edited August 19, 2023 by strikeeagle [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Chris
Solution leg5840 Posted August 19, 2023 Author Solution Posted August 19, 2023 Everyone, please don't argue. It seems my ears were just sensitive. 1
PLUTON Posted August 19, 2023 Posted August 19, 2023 Ca n existe pas ceci ( un exemple sdef ressemblerait probablement à user/Saved Games/DCS.openbeta/Sounds/sdef/Aircrafts/Engines/F100-PW-229/e_F15E_cenc_close.sdef ) dans Saved game pour le F15E ? Et si cela existe ! dites moi exactement ou! clear Rechercher des détails 240 / 5 000 Résultats de traduction Résultat de traduction star_border Doesn't this (an example sdef would probably look like user/Saved Games/DCS.openbeta/Sounds/sdef/Aircrafts/Engines/F100-PW-229/e_F15E_cenc_close.sdef) exist in Saved game for the F15E? And if it exists! tell me exactly where!
FusRoPotato Posted August 19, 2023 Posted August 19, 2023 14 minutes ago, PLUTON said: Ca n existe pas ceci ( un exemple sdef ressemblerait probablement à user/Saved Games/DCS.openbeta/Sounds/sdef/Aircrafts/Engines/F100-PW-229/e_F15E_cenc_close.sdef ) dans Saved game pour le F15E ? Et si cela existe ! dites moi exactement ou! clear Rechercher des détails 240 / 5 000 Résultats de traduction Résultat de traduction star_border Doesn't this (an example sdef would probably look like user/Saved Games/DCS.openbeta/Sounds/sdef/Aircrafts/Engines/F100-PW-229/e_F15E_cenc_close.sdef) exist in Saved game for the F15E? And if it exists! tell me exactly where! Doesn't exist. You have to make it.
PLUTON Posted August 20, 2023 Posted August 20, 2023 Ah ok but I would like to know how to do it can you explain it? that would be very nice. Thanks in advance
FusRoPotato Posted August 20, 2023 Posted August 20, 2023 You have to make the sdef file in the same way as my example, and put it in that folder. There is an additional file stored in "DCS World OpenBeta\Doc\Sounds" that has a list of sdefs, sound files, and some examples on what possible settings you can play with.
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