Wefly JF-17 right side control panel review

[PLAAF]

I purchased the Wefly JF-17 right-side control panel a few days ago. I am sure that you are all dying to know how this US$1100 panel is. After intensive testing and communicating with Wefly, I have to say, this panel is less than ideal. Frankly, I don’t think their tech department knows what they are doing. OK, let me go through the problems I have encountered one at a time.

First of all, let’s start with its switches. As you all know, there are 2 types of switches used on the JF-17, 2-position switches and 3-position switches. But the thing is that all 2 position switches on this panel have only 1 value instead of 2 for the 2 positions. So only its "on" position can be detected by the computer, which means you can only switch it on but can’t turn it off. Please see the video below.

This video shows that the off switch can't be detected by the Windows

This video shows that the off switch can't be detected by DCS.

 

After a full day of discussing with people from Wefly, I realised that their switches are designed for JF-17’s control only.  For example, for some controls in DCS, we can map our controls in 2 ways. Using the flap as an example, we have “flap up”, “flap down” and “flap up/down”. So, if you have a 2-position switch, you can map your "on" switch to “flap up” and the "off" switch to “flap down”. However, if you have only 1 button to spare, you can map it to “flap up/down”. So in this case, if you can map a switch to “flap up/down”, and when you switch down, the game will somehow be able to detect it and turn the flap down despite the fact that you have not mapped “flap down”, and the fact that your computer couldn’t detect the switch’s down position. At first glance, you may think that’s amazing and cool. Nope, it is not. Because it only works on JF-17. During my conversation with Wefly, they emphasised the importance of the “special device” category to me. Apparently, this only works for JF-17’s “Special device only” category. If you are playing anything other than JF-17, your switch will only have 1 position. You can turn it on but can’t turn it off. Well, think about it, you can. But you have to turn the switch off and then on again to get the same effect, which can be extremely awkward.

What about the 3 position switches? It’s similar. They have only 2 positions that can be detected by the computer, up and down, but no middle. Let’s use the external light as an example. On JF-17, the external light switch has 3-position, which are “Normal”, “Off” and “NVG”. In the DCS, we are given the following 6 mapping options,

1. “Normal”,
2. “Off”,
3. “NVG”,
4. “Normal/Off/NVG”,
5. “Normal/Off” and
6. “Off/NVG”.

Normally, if you have a 3-position switch, you would map them as “Normal”, “Off” and “NVG”. And if you have only 1 button, you would map it to “Normal/Off/NVG”. But in this case, you need to map it to “Normal/Off” and “Off/NVG”, and just like before, whenever you switch it to the middle, the game somehow knows that you are in the “Off” position. Hmm…. Only work on JF-17 and only work on the category “special device only” which isn’t available on other planes. Why am I getting this feeling that Deka may have contributed to the misery of the control panel? If so, Uboat, come out and get your butt spank punishment (Uboat,赶快出来挨屁股) . I don’t understand why they designed their driver this way. It would be much simple and easier for us if they make it like everybody else. Let the Windows detect them all so we players can map them as we thought fit. This is the same problem in their UFCP. They just had to make one of those software to take control of the UFCP instead of letting us map them. But during the conversation, I get this feeling that their technicians are proud of this. So don’t expect them to change this anytime soon. As for the 3-position switches, since only the mid position can’t be detected and you still have up and down 2 positions, you can still use them as 2-way switches on other aircraft.

 

Now, let’s move on to other aspects of this panel. If you are an axis lover like me, you are going to be thoroughly disappointed because, except for the 3 knobs for lights, every knob on this thing is an encoder. And the worst thing is that those 3 knobs don’t work at all. Please see the video and picture below, notice that Windows can’t detect it and so does the DCS.

 

The picture above: No Axis is detected by the Windows.

 

 

Video Above: Axis can't be detected by DCS.

I have been trying to contact Wefly about this problem. But they claim that it is just my setting which isn’t right and told me that one of their technicians will help me to get it right. I really didn’t know what to make of this. The switch problem was kind of fixed (well only for JF-17), but at least the game and computer can detect at least one of their positions. But for those Axis, both the computer and the DCS can’t detect them. I do not understand how is “a problem in my setting” as they put it, when both the Windows and DCS couldn't detect those Axis.

 

so I waited for a while and checked in once in a while. But their technician never showed up. The next day, I received a message telling me that later, their technician will help me and that it was best for me to download an APP for the remote control of my computer. And their technician will help me by remote control my computer. I am sure you all know that the internet is a dangerous place, we all use different ways to protect ourselves from all the misdemeanours on the internet. But I chose to trust them and downloaded the APP. But then, I waited and waited, the technician still didn’t show. Since they claim that the device was OK and it is only my setting that is wrong, so they refused to give me a refund or replacement. I mean, who would? That’s US$1100. After 2 days, I asked them that haven’t their technician showed up for work in the past 2 days, their salesperson claims that their technicians are doing something else. Only by the end of the 2^nd day, their technician showed up and took the remote control of my computer. During that time, they appear to have installed some kind of software (which they uninstalled right afterwards), that looks a bit like the configuration tool from Virple (not the same but appears to have a similar function) and through that software, they installed some kind of driver which allowed my Windows to detect those Axis. 

After a quick test, I noticed that the value of the 3rd Axis doesn't seem right. But I was told that "Let's leave it for now. Tomorrow, we will remake a calibration file and test it again". When they said that I assume they know the problem and that this is just another driver issue as it is presented in their UFCP. I trusted them thinking maybe they are working on it and it would be a matter of time before they fixed it, and they would contact me after the weekend. But afterwards, they never contacted me to address the issue. Maybe they were busy with other things and will fix the issue and contact me eventually, I thought.

I thoroughly test them in the meantime. Please see the video below. It will show you that whenever you rotate the first knob, the value of the 3rd knob will change too. On top of that, the smallest value of the 3rd Axis is 30%, not 0%.

The other problem you may have noticed is that they combined the first and second Axis into a virtual joystick instead of independent Axises.

Why is that a problem?  I will explain it later. For now, the problem is that to prevent the 1st Axis from affecting the 3rd Axis, I have to tune the 3rd Axis by giving it a 71% dead zone and 40 curvature. Because, the 3rd Axis starts with a 30% value, and if you rotate the first knob to maximum, that value will increase to 71%, that's why you need a 71% dead zone.

 

So, after nearly a week without hearing from them, I contacted them again. But this time, they claim that this is how it suppose to be. And "The engineer said that this is just a matter of model value transfer, that's how it was developed"; "Flight sim software's calibration function exists for this very reason. So as long as you can use it, it's not a big deal. No need to get too tangled in this issue". 

Honestly, I don't know what to make of this. I didn't want to assume the worst of people and have always loved to give people the benefit of the doubt. On top of that, the salesperson had been very helpful to me. He didn't appear to know what is he talking about nor had any experience in flight sim. All he ever told me was what the technician told him to. So when he offered me to contact the engineer directly, I jumped at the opportunity. But that is when things get slightly more ....... questionable.

After back and forth with the engineer, he insisted that my problem was just a matter of calibration on my part. If what he said was true, then the control panel is purposefully designed this way and every one of them would have the exact same problem.

In the end, I told him that this may be a faulty device, if so I'd like to have a replacement, not a refund because I would still love to support new control panel developers. It's no big deal to have produced a faulty product. Every factory has them, even the best factories. If it is a driver's issue, all you have to do is to patch the driver. But after I said that, he stopped responding to me.

For some of the more experienced players in the flight sim community, you probably want to suggest to used Windows to calibrate those Axis. But that's the problem of having a virtual joystick instead of 2 independent Axis. As a joystick, their default value is at 50%, not 0% or 100%. So after calibration, your smallest or biggest value for those 2 Axis will get stuck at 50%. At that point, you have to "reset to default". But when you do, all problems came back. Please see the video below. The calibration doesn't solve the problem.

 

Now, let's summarise. The main problems we have here are as follows:

1: Just like their UFCP, there is still no software to synchronise the warning lights.

2: Switches are organised in a way that only works on JF-17.

3: The three Axis are not working properly.

Of course, there are still some other minor issues.

For example, all encoder knobs and a button feel a bit loose. 

 

Also, about the emergency landing gear handle. 

 

 

I wish people in Wefly take those issues seriously and face them. Especially when they want to charge people over US$1100 for it. At this point, because we don't have the software to synchronise the warning light, the entire warning light panel is still little more than a decoration.

As I have mentioned before. It is a simple matter, or at least it should be. If the device is faulty, admit it and provide the customer with a replacement. If it's the driver's problem, simply patch it.  It is not wise to charge people a premium price for faulty or incomplete goods while blaming the custom for your own mistakes.

 

EDIT:

  

On 8/22/2023 at 4:18 AM, jonny415 said:

I was thinking about the right panel but the price $1100 is a big no no and with a lot of issues I think they released it too early. Nowhere to download the latest software. you will have to email/WhatsApp to get the software. They need to bring the price down by 50%.

Agree. But that is assume you receive one without defection. Otherwise, once they received your money, they won't care about what happens afterwards. I am still not happy about the way they treated their customer when they send their customer a defective product. Their attitude is very arrogant and in a very perfunctory manner. 

Firstly, only after days of waiting did their promised technician show up. After they installed the driver, they immediately run off without fixing the axis problem. And when they ran off, they told me that "they will remake a new calibration tool the next day". That led me to believe that they knew about the axis problem yet didn't tell me about it before selling it to me. On top of that, they didn't contact me again to provide me with this new "calibration tool".

That was the last conversation we had before they left me hanging on it for nearly a week.

After that, I tried to contact them again, but they started to pretend they never said that, and it is a problem on my part.

null

 

Afterwards, they put me in contact with their engineer. That guy was very arrogant, and perfunctory as hell, gloating even.

After I took the time to explain the problem I have encountered in detail again, all he replied was this.

 

null

One sentence. Go look at the DCS software manual.

I had no idea what's this DCS software is. Is it some kind of accessory software to DCS? or is it software that they have developed? I don't know. 

So I asked them what's this DCS software. And I got this as a reply. This time without even a word. At least last time, I got a full sentence.

Please tell me, if you are in my shoes, how do you interpret it?

In the end, I figured out that the DCS software they were referring to was not any software, but just "Axis Tuning".

What they were trying to say in this picture was to not use Deadzone and curvature, but to decrease the saturation to where the arrow pointed.

As anyone who has used Axis tuning will know, that won't fix the problem, instead, it will make the problem worse.

So I wrote back showing them that their idea won't work. 

 

 

Once again, I got one sentence back. Seriously, what other reasons can lead to this? Anyone could have seen that this is a defective product by this point, either in its driver or hardware.

That was when I asked for a replacement, but never received any reply from them again.

 

EDIT 2:

  

19 hours ago, My_Name_Jeff said:

How is it right now? Is it better? Looking into this panel and want to dive in.

Still no response from them. Johnny415 also tried to contact them through email and WhatsApp multiple times, hoping to solve the issues on the UFCP. But they didn't even bother to reply to him at all.

Also, there is another problem I forgot to mention. All of their encoders have NO push functions.

Now I think it is safe to assume that Wefly products are defective by design. That is why everybody I have heard who purchased their products experienced the same problem. Their engineers are just not talented enough to design a proper controller.

And they know it, they can't send their customers the replacements because all of their goods are the same, so they stopped responding to us because they cannot solve the problem.

 

 

Edited November 13, 2023 by PLAAF

[jonny415]

@PLAAF LOL, they forgot to add the landing gear override handle. I bought the UFCP from them, the encoders are useless and not working properly. Regarding the on/off toggle switch they probably not using the on/on switch wiring to the toggle that's why you can't use it on another module. There is a workaround by modifying one file. 

Let's try one example that will match the JF-17 AC Gen toggle switch with the Mig-21 AC Gen switch 

C:\Program Files\Eagle Dynamics\DCS World OpenBeta\Mods\aircraft\MIG-21bis\Input\MiG-21\joystick. There is a file called "default" that should be edited with Notepad++

{combos={{key='K',reformers={'RAlt'}}},down=device_commands.ACGenerator,cockpit_device_id=devices.AC_BUS,value_down=1.0,name=_('AC Generator'),category=_('Power')},

{combos={{key='K',reformers={'RAlt'}}},down=device_commands.ACGenerator,up=device_commands.ACGenerator,cockpit_device_id=devices.AC_BUS,value_down=1.0,value_up= 0.0,name=_('AC Generator 2-Pos ON/OFF'),category=_('Power')},

The top code is default and the bottom code is modified after editing save and in DCS World controls now you should be able to see AC Gen on/off set and assign this input to on only. 

The fun part is you will have to do this to all the modules you want to use with the Wefly panel 

[MAXsenna]

@PLAAF

Thank you for this extensive write  up. 

What worries me the most are the non functioning warning lights and encoders instead of axis. I don't expect them to wire all the switches fully, as Windows (DirectX) can't handle that many.

As @jonny415 writes, you can add "special" for joystick commands yourself, or you can map the same switch twice, once for the on position, and then once more for the off, just select "switch_number_off" in the drop down.

BUT, we are in luck. @Quaggles has made a nice little mod, and @Munkwolf has made all those nice little nifty "on else off" for almost every feature in every module, so there's really no need to rewrite commands for any module.

Hopefully Wefly will read this and understand that they need to change this if they were ever to be successful. 

Cheers! 

https://github.com/Quaggles/dcs-input-command-injector/releases

https://github.com/Munkwolf/dcs-community-keybinds

 

[jonny415]

@MAXsenna was not aware of that mod thanks 

[PLAAF]

4 hours ago, jonny415 said:

@PLAAF LOL, they forgot to add the landing gear override handle. I bought the UFCP from them, the encoders are useless and not working properly. Regarding the on/off toggle switch they probably not using the on/on switch wiring to the toggle that's why you can't use it on another module. There is a workaround by modifying one file. 

Let's try one example that will match the JF-17 AC Gen toggle switch with the Mig-21 AC Gen switch 

C:\Program Files\Eagle Dynamics\DCS World OpenBeta\Mods\aircraft\MIG-21bis\Input\MiG-21\joystick. There is a file called "default" that should be edited with Notepad++

{combos={{key='K',reformers={'RAlt'}}},down=device_commands.ACGenerator,cockpit_device_id=devices.AC_BUS,value_down=1.0,name=_('AC Generator'),category=_('Power')},

{combos={{key='K',reformers={'RAlt'}}},down=device_commands.ACGenerator,up=device_commands.ACGenerator,cockpit_device_id=devices.AC_BUS,value_down=1.0,value_up= 0.0,name=_('AC Generator 2-Pos ON/OFF'),category=_('Power')},

The top code is default and the bottom code is modified after editing save and in DCS World controls now you should be able to see AC Gen on/off set and assign this input to on only. 

The fun part is you will have to do this to all the modules you want to use with the Wefly panel 

Thank you very much my friend for providing us with this method to work around the switch problem. 

The thing is that we have to do it for every switch in every aircraft. Imagine the workload. I thought I paid my $1100 to have some fun. Not to increase the list of chores I have to do.

[MAXsenna]

Thank you very much my friend for providing us with this method to work around the switch problem. 
The thing is that we have to do it for every switch in every aircraft. Imagine the workload. I thought I paid my $1100 to have some fun. Not to increase the list of chores I have to do.

Oh, I feel you man.
The thing is that this is not really up to Wefly, but every 3rd party developer. So so yourself a favour and have a look at the links I posted.
I use those in every module. Even Heatblur adopted those keybinds into the F-14.

Cheers!

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk

[PLAAF]

29 minutes ago, MAXsenna said:

Oh, I feel you man.
The thing is that this is not really up to Wefly, but every 3rd party developer. So so yourself a favour and have a look at the links I posted.
I use those in every module. Even Heatblur adopted those keybinds into the F-14.

Cheers!

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk
 

Thanks for the help. I will give them a try.

4 hours ago, MAXsenna said:

What worries me the most are the non functioning warning lights and encoders instead of axis. I don't expect them to wire all the switches fully, as Windows (DirectX) can't handle that many.

As for the encoder, I haven't yet encountered any problems. But I didn't test all of them. I assume it may be their sensitivity issue. All encoders have this issue, not just from Wefly, but from brands like Virple and others too. You can try to rotate it at different speeds to test at which speed, the encoder is more sensitive to your commands. This is the exact reason why I prefer Axis to Encoder. For an encoder, if you rotate it too fast, the signal it received for each command is too short to be registered, thus they will ignore 90% of your commands. But if you rotate it too slowly, they may register a signal that is opposite to your command at the end of each bump you feel. So give my method a try. If the problem persists, it maybe a faulty encoder.

Edited August 19, 2023 by PLAAF

[J-20]

That's a lot of problems, and they charge people $1100 for it? 

I feel sick in the stomach. 

I guess there is no depth some people would not sink to.

Edited August 20, 2023 by J-20

[jonny415]

I was thinking about the right panel but the price $1100 is a big no no and with a lot of issues I think they released it too early. Nowhere to download the latest software. you will have to email/WhatsApp to get the software. They need to bring the price down by 50%.

[PLAAF]

On 8/22/2023 at 4:18 AM, jonny415 said:

I was thinking about the right panel but the price $1100 is a big no no and with a lot of issues I think they released it too early. Nowhere to download the latest software. you will have to email/WhatsApp to get the software. They need to bring the price down by 50%.

Agree. But that is assume you receive one without defection. Otherwise, once they received your money, they won't care about what happens afterwards. I am still not happy about the way they treated their customer when they send their customer a defective product. Their attitude is very arrogant and in a very perfunctory manner. 

Firstly, only after days of waiting did their promised technician show up. After they installed the driver, they immediately run off without fixing the axis problem. And when they ran off, they told me that "they will remake a new calibration tool the next day". That led me to believe that they knew about the axis problem yet didn't tell me about it before selling it to me. On top of that, they didn't contact me again to provide me with this new "calibration tool".

That was the last conversation we had before they left me hanging on it for nearly a week.

After that, I tried to contact them again, but they started to pretend they never said that, and it is a problem on my part.

null

 

Afterwards, they put me in contact with their engineer. That guy was very arrogant, and perfunctory as hell, gloating even.

After I took the time to explain the problem I have encountered in detail again, all he replied was this.

 

null

One sentence. Go look at the DCS software manual.

I had no idea what's this DCS software is. Is it some kind of accessory software to DCS? or is it software that they have developed? I don't know. 

So I asked them what's this DCS software. And I got this as a reply. This time without even a word. At least last time, I got a full sentence.

Please tell me, if you are in my shoes, how do you interpret it?

In the end, I figured out that the DCS software they were referring to was not any software, but just "Axis Tuning".

What they were trying to say in this picture was to not use Deadzone and curvature, but to decrease the saturation to where the arrow pointed.

As anyone who has used Axis tuning will know, that won't fix the problem, instead, it will make the problem worse.

So I wrote back showing them that their idea won't work. 

 

 

Once again, I got one sentence back. Seriously, what other reasons can lead to this? Anyone could have seen that this is a defective product by this point, either in its driver or hardware.

That was when I asked for a replacement, but never received any reply from them again.

 

 

 

Edited August 23, 2023 by PLAAF

[MAXsenna]

@PLAAF I'm so sorry you volunteered to be the Guinea pig. I had high hopes for this product. I cross my fingers they will get back to you and fix this.
I really appreciate you keeping us updated!

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk

[PLAAF]

25 minutes ago, MAXsenna said:

@PLAAF I'm so sorry you volunteered to be the Guinea pig. I had high hopes for this product. I cross my fingers they will get back to you and fix this.
I really appreciate you keeping us updated!

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk
 

That's OK. If my experience can prevent other people in our DCS community from getting into the same trouble as me, it's all worth it. 

Edited August 21, 2023 by PLAAF

[jonny415]

I did sent them a email regarding that few weeks ago that they should have place on there website for a guide and a software, since I had to go thru UFCP without any instructions didn’t new it requires DCS BIOS and there software. I guess they want there every costumer to email them for instructions and for the software. 

[J-20]

Have you guys noticed? After checking out their website, I found no information on their warranty. It's not mentioned anywhere.

[Napillo]

are they using a variable resistor for a pot? It sounds like they used the wrong value for the vr, it is probably too low voltage for the one they chose. 

[My_Name_Jeff]

How is it right now? Is it better? Looking into this panel and want to dive in.

[PLAAF]

16 hours ago, My_Name_Jeff said:

How is it right now? Is it better? Looking into this panel and want to dive in.

Still no response from them. Johnny415 also tried to contact them through email and WhatsApp multiple times, hoping to solve the issues on the UFCP. But they didn't even bother to reply to him at all.

Also, there is another problem I forgot to mention. All of their encoders have NO push functions.

Now I think it is safe to assume that Wefly products are defective by design. That is why everybody I have heard who purchased their products experienced the same problem. Their engineers are just not talented enough to design a proper controller.

And they know it, they can't send their customers the replacements because all of their goods are the same, so they stopped responding to us because they cannot solve the problem.

Edited November 13, 2023 by PLAAF

[MAXsenna]

Sorry about that @PLAAF

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[My_Name_Jeff]

On 11/13/2023 at 5:23 AM, PLAAF said:

Still no response from them. Johnny415 also tried to contact them through email and WhatsApp multiple times, hoping to solve the issues on the UFCP. But they didn't even bother to reply to him at all.

Also, there is another problem I forgot to mention. All of their encoders have NO push functions.

Now I think it is safe to assume that Wefly products are defective by design. That is why everybody I have heard who purchased their products experienced the same problem. Their engineers are just not talented enough to design a proper controller.

And they know it, they can't send their customers the replacements because all of their goods are the same, so they stopped responding to us because they cannot solve the problem.

 

Shame, so basically we have no one on the market that would make anything jf17.

Do you know anyone who would custom make jf17 panel and ufc? 

Literally the closest thing I know is the multi purpose ufc with a jf17 labelling plate, that doesn't even have enough button to configerate Jeff ufc.

[My_Name_Jeff]

On 11/13/2023 at 5:23 AM, PLAAF said:

Still no response from them. Johnny415 also tried to contact them through email and WhatsApp multiple times, hoping to solve the issues on the UFCP. But they didn't even bother to reply to him at all.

Also, there is another problem I forgot to mention. All of their encoders have NO push functions.

Now I think it is safe to assume that Wefly products are defective by design. That is why everybody I have heard who purchased their products experienced the same problem. Their engineers are just not talented enough to design a proper controller.

And they know it, they can't send their customers the replacements because all of their goods are the same, so they stopped responding to us because they cannot solve the problem.

 

So far only found one on etsy that offered to customize labelling from the f18 master arm section to jf17 master warning section

[jonny415]

@My_Name_Jeff I was playing around with it a few months ago but for master caution and the emergency brake and parachute deploy toggle switch works well with DCS bios. Since I am using Winwing MFD it will sit on top of it pretty well. I printed out the box but dam thing had a warping 

[Napillo]

It could probably be fixed up, I know you shouldn't have to do that with this hardware, especially with what you paid for it, but it sounds like they selected some wrong components and didn't wire up the ones they had correctly. I'm guessing the software support for the functions are there, but the hardware just can't do it (hence why they can't fix it in software). 

[PLAAF]

OK, I am done. The text illumination lights no longer work. It has only been about 4 months since I bought it.

Edited February 8 by PLAAF

[MAXsenna]

OK, I am done. The text illumination lights no longer work. It has only been about 4 months since I bought it.

That's seriously sad! I'm sorry you had to go through this, but thanks for the heads up!

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[jonny415]

@PLAAF Ask for refund or replacement. If they do a replacement then it shows they are working on the product to fix issues it has, but if they are avoiding, you for putting out a review for their product has issues then ED should remove there posting from there website.