Detachable refueling probe and recon versions?

[carss]

Will the F-104 being made have the option to attach/detach refueling probe? Also can an RF-104 also be included for certain recon missions?

In pic, Dutch recon RF-104G

[algherghezghez]

The recon orpheus pod would be awesome. As for the refueling probe i think depends on the version: C, yes, G no (there was only a test on the S 

[Bremspropeller]

The Canadians also ran tests with a CF.

[carss]

The recon orpheus pod would be awesome. As for the refueling probe i think depends on the version: C, yes, G no (there was only a test on the S 

I see, I believe there were some G versions that had it too right?

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[TLTeo]

No F-104G or S used refueling probes in front line service. In Italy it was tested by a test squadron, but they decided against its adoption.

[bies]

USAF F-104C deployed during Vietnam war were flying with refueling probe regularly, escorting allied aircrafts and providing CAS.

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

CF-104s with the Vinten VICON recce pod; 4 70mm cameras.

Having a photo-reconnaissance mission set in DCS would be way, way, way too much fun. Well, for me, it would be.

[CarloVecchi]

AMI Recce G with Orpheus pod from a current project for Strike Fighters 2

 

[Avimimus]

Recon would be great! It is a very well suited aircraft to some types of reconnaissance and it would keep it relevant in theatres where it would be outmatched as an interceptor!

[_BringTheReign_]

I love that Aerges models multiple variants for their modules - it would be fantastic if they included an F-104 variant with a refueling probe as well!

[ThePops]

On 8/26/2023 at 10:02 AM, Bremspropeller said:

The Canadians also ran tests with a CF.

The CF-104 (the Canadair version of C-104G) was optimized for nuclear strikes and reconnaissance. Among the changes were no cannon, no provision for Sidewinders, a special radar, extra fuel cell and a detachable refueling probe.  In the 60s, Canada had 8 squadrons of these planes in Europe. In the late 60s this operation was gradually reduced to nothing eventually. The aircraft were put on Storage in the UK for a short while until Denmark and Norway bought them. Not sure what was done with the Danish aircraft, but the Norwegian aircraft were modified to have more weapons stations, more varied weapons, Sidewinder, a gun etc. They should be more or less identical to the existing Lockheed produced F-104G that Norway already had. Cannot find any info on what happened to the refueling probe, but I have never seen a picture of a Norwegian CF-104 with it.

The CF-104 definitely had a detachable refueling probe though, along with longer range (more fuel). If the probe ever was used by the squadrons, who knows. A long-range, reconnaissance CF-104 with refueling in DCS would be really cool   

[Bremspropeller]

2 hours ago, ThePops said:

In the 60s, Canada had 8 squadrons of these planes in Europe. In the late 60s this operation was gradually reduced to nothing eventually.

That'sa bit too dramatic - Canada had two things happen to them during the mid 60s, but they'd fly CF-104s into the early-mid 80s:

1st: Charles DeGaulle threw everybody not speaking Francais out of the country. Hence the CF-104s stationed in Marville and Grostenquin switched to Baden-Söllingen and Lahr and Zweibrücken. Zweibrücken was handed over to the USAFE a couple of years later. Baden-Söllingen and Lahr were both prior used by the AdlA. Both even had those distinct "french" shelter-loops ("Marguèrites").

2nd: NATO doctrine shifted from nuking everybody if even a branch of wood snapped the wrong way in the woods at night, to "Flexible Response". This in turn also lead to equipping the CF-104s (non recce jets) with guns and conventional weapons, including the double-racks for bombs under the wings.

The refuelling-probes were not standard inventoryto my knowledge and it was only really a test configuration. I think it was only tested once when they wanted to know if there's a quicker way to get the jets in Canada (e.g. the jets at Cold Lake) to the frontline in Europe without taking the jets apart and sending them via airfreight. I'd not be too surprised if the refulling probes were the same as used with the F-104C in SEA, so it's probably a no-brainer to install them onto any 104. Apparently including the two-seaters:

Edited January 4 by Bremspropeller

[TLTeo]

As far as I know only the USAF -Cs used refueling probes. Italy also trialed them and concluded it wasn't worth it for the types of missions the 104 flew here (including a/a, a/g, and recce).

[ThePops]

19 hours ago, Bremspropeller said:

That'sa bit too dramatic

He he. You are right. Looking a bit closer into it, Canada ended up with some 50 aircraft they had no use for. These were stored in the UK (Scotland I believe) and ended up being sold to Norway and Denmark and then modified to "normal" 104G standard. Funny thing, the reason for Norway to get more F-104s was actually to replace lost F-5s, which crashed in unexpected numbers. Something was needed to fill in the gap until a new platform was planned in the early 1980s. But, at that time two more things happened. The USSR abruptly started flying more bombers and big reconnaissance aircraft (huge flying listening posts essentially) and abruptly increased their activity with the naval fleet. Those existing F-104 was used exclusively for interception (air to air), and it was found that the F-5 was (very) ill suited for naval activities (air to sea). Lack of avionics such as INS I would guess, perhaps radar? This is also a bit funny, because when the F-5 was chosen, the main competitor was the A-4, which would have been more suited for the naval job that was needed in the late 60s/early 70s I think (but I know very little about the A-4). Of course, no one knew that anyway in 1963. The F-104 was found to be perfectly suited for air to sea missions, and Canada wanted to sell lots of them.

The CF-104 only stayed for 10 years, when they were replaced with the F-16. The F-16 was better in most things, especially air to ground, air to sea and as a dogfighter (much better handling of course), but not necessarily interception, where the F-104 was a tad faster. The F-16A initially had only Sidewinders and gun, no BVR capabilities. During the cold war, the job was not to blow up Soviet aircraft and ships. This would have started WWIII. The job was to be there, flash with the sabers, but keep it cold.