Contact dimension standardization

[algherghezghez]

It's a bit unfair that having some eyecandy with a high resolution monitor makes spotting almost impossible. We should have a way imputing resolution and monitor size to have something more realistic. With my 4k 32" I hardly see anything at 2 nm. Also can we please have a way to change the dot only label scale separately from UI scaling? Ideal dot dimension for me is between 1.25 and 1.5 UI scale and I would like to keep that without my menues looking like a potato

[SharpeXB]

ED is already working on something like this 

 

[Bosun]

16 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

ED is already working on something like this 

 

They casually mentioned that in a response to a thread many months (maybe even a year) ago.  

We've not heard any word about it since.  I'm genuinely curious about the problem solving going on here, because my limited perspective would be a simple change in how LOD are rendered, and the size of those assets at a certain range, that is then a scale factor tied to the resolution you choose, is the answer.   I say 'simple', not to imply the work is simple, but to imply the concept of what needs to happen is relatively straightforward, and the work involved should also be straightforward, even if it is complex.  I'm also assuming that LODs and sizing are modular constructs that can be changed via one part of the code.  The fact that a casual modder achieved a fix for this should speak to the potential approachability of this issue.  

But I'm guessing by how long it has taken, that isn't the case, and they're needing to re-write some piece of the game engine from scratch in order to accomodate this.  Likely because those LODs, or the size of assets at a range, isn't something modular within the code that, but a hard number baked into to several modules across separate instances, requireing all 3rd party developers to update their core-engine components as well.  

I'm genuinely surprised at DCS, IL-2 and other flight sims for not tackling this 10 years ago, when it became obvious this would cause disparities as resolutions continued to get finer.

Sometimes developers amaze me (most of the time, actually.)  

But sometimes they look like the US Congress trying to get rid of daylight savings time.  Or pennies.  They just can't get around to it and no one knows why. lol.

Edited August 27, 2023 by Bosun

[SharpeXB]

6 hours ago, Bosun said:

They casually mentioned that in a response to a thread many months (maybe even a year) ago.

They started on it back in March, about five months ago. That’s yesterday in DCS Years

[Bosun]

Just 5 months ago?  I mean - fair. That isn't long for typical dev cycles.  

For some reason I could have sworn I saw them post about that a year ago or more.  But maybe it was just in a thread that was that old...when you're browsing forums and start digging for specific topics, time seems to lose meaning as you hit threads that have recent posts, but were started 6-7 years ago.  

Wayback machine's got nothin' on an internet forum for preserving past webspace. lol.

Edited August 27, 2023 by Bosun

[BMO]

a fix is needed here! it did exist in the improved dots mod, but they cancelled it (the mod made it possible to abuse it so u have literally boxes around the enemy). I see why they removed it but removing it without offering a solution HALF A YEAR LATER is frustrating.

I´m Playing on a 3440x1440 Ultrawide and without the dot mod I cant dogfight <profanity>. Right now I´m stuck with Enigmas cold war that doesnt require a pure client and Singleplayer.

imo it´s sad when people (like me) invest a lot of money in hardware and modules just to find out you would be better off with ultra low graphic settings and a 1080p monitor. DCS is not a a casual game and it definitely need some self convincing to dive into it. After one takes that step it´s a steep learning curve and u still have to be a nerd to find this enjoyable.

And then noticing that you have the choice of either not playing MP, going 1080p or see <profanity> is a big party pooper.

I came to DCS with a lot of enthusiasm. Even after realising that a lot of stuff doesnt work properly (AI, ATC) is heavily outdated (Some documentation), mega clumsy to operarte (Mission editor) or unfinished for eternity (Supercarrier), I´m still hooked and can enjoy it.

But only with the dot mod, not seeing enemy planes is no fun. I just dont understand it - at the very least devs could implement the EXISTING dot mod, set the values and freeze them for the IC, so abuse is no longer possible. I get that development  can slow cause stuff gets complicated easy, but this is borderline acceptable.

Anyway keep up the work, love your product for the most parts and i hope this gets fixed soon.

[upyr1]

On 8/26/2023 at 10:38 AM, SharpeXB said:

ED is already working on something like this 

 

Good news I hope we see it soon I fly vr which has its own issues but scale isn't one

Edited August 30, 2023 by upyr1

[twistking]

i hope that ED's solution is flexible enough so that it can scale in both ways. i'm on a 1080p monitor and i have the opposite problem. distant objects are way too visible! i don't complain about them being too easy to spot: i fly only SP and COOP so i do not care about competitive advantages, but it just doesn't look right. on lower resolutions distant dots should appear much lighter/transparent when they are in the pixel/subpixel distance bracket...

ED's solution should give server admins a tool to (at least try to) level the playing field, but also give SP and COOP players the option to set their game to their liking. in my case that would mean making spotting a bit more difficult but making the game look more realistic...

[ACS_Dev]

1 hour ago, twistking said:

i hope that ED's solution is flexible enough so that it can scale in both ways. i'm on a 1080p monitor and i have the opposite problem. distant objects are way too visible! i don't complain about them being too easy to spot: i fly only SP and COOP so i do not care about competitive advantages, but it just doesn't look right. on lower resolutions distant dots should appear much lighter/transparent when they are in the pixel/subpixel distance bracket...

ED's solution should give server admins a tool to (at least try to) level the playing field, but also give SP and COOP players the option to set their game to their liking. in my case that would mean making spotting a bit more difficult but making the game look more realistic...

I agree as a Quest 2 user. I used to play ECW andit wasn't at all uncommon for me to see hostiles as little dots out to 20 miles and much further, I'd say as far as 40 nautical miles. I have seen Mirages, T-38s and A-10s countless times IRL and on days where there was cloud cover it seems basically impossible to tally them past 10-15 miles, even through 10x binoculars. Of course it's way different when there is sun glint but DCS doesn't have that.

The same applies for ground units.
 

[SharpeXB]

3 hours ago, twistking said:

ED's solution should give server admins a tool to (at least try to) level the playing field, but also give SP and COOP players the option to set their game to their liking.

I don’t think that I agree with that. Whatever solution DCS arrives at, it should not be player adjustable. That has the potential to fragment up Multiplayer with different servers using different settings. That was part of the problem with the old Model Enlargement feature. A good solution should work for all players equally regardless of their hardware. 

[twistking]

14 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

I don’t think that I agree with that. Whatever solution DCS arrives at, it should not be player adjustable. That has the potential to fragment up Multiplayer with different servers using different settings. That was part of the problem with the old Model Enlargement feature. A good solution should work for all players equally regardless of their hardware. 

mhm... i get where you're coming from. i mean ideally ED comes up with the optimal solution, that works for every resolution and produces realistic results while maintaining similar practical spotting on different setups for competitive MP. i just somehow doubt that they will pull off that "perfect" shot. maybe ED could build a "default" solution that tries to reach that ideal goal (realistic looking and usable for competitive play). that would be the standard and would by default be enforced on every server. they could then add an override option where user could tweak the subpixel spotting in one or the other direction. this would need to be allowed by the mission designer, so it would default to "off", but would allow for different preferences in SP and COOP play, if the host decides to allow it. similar to those difficulty related options, that can be enforced by the mission/server.

i agree that there should be one "default" option, that is as close to the perfect solution as possible, that would be the standard for all of competitive play. but take me for example. i have 27" monitor with only 1080p. i like it. looks good enough with 4x MSAA but the subpixel spotting pixels are huge... and can somewhat break the immersion. i will always have bigger pixels than someone on 24". ED can tune their subpixel modell for resolution, but they cannot tune for monitor size and viewing distance. therefore some flexibility for SP and COOP could be helpful!

[SharpeXB]

4 minutes ago, twistking said:

ideally ED comes up with the optimal solution, that works for every resolution and produces realistic results while maintaining similar practical spotting on different setups

That’s indeed the whole point. To have good realistic results for everyone. 
Beyond this at a user or SP level there’s already dot labels which are user adjustable. 

[twistking]

1 minute ago, SharpeXB said:

That’s indeed the whole point. To have good realistic results for everyone. 
Beyond this at a user or SP level there’s already dot labels which are user adjustable. 

well.. then let's wait and see what ED is cooking.

labels don't count though. they are not particularly immersive and in my case they would not help, because i want less (!) subpixel spotting not more