Radar training

[BaronVonVaderham]

Hi guys,

I’ve been practicing the “king of the hill” mission for the f-16, which is a multiple bogeys and friendlies scenario. I’m struggling with finding and engaging the enemy effectively, and at best get a single kill using a maddog release (without actually following the maddog release process).

i also noticed that when I think I’m in TWS mode, I cannot cycle through multiple targets with TMS-R. I have to go to STT to get a target lock.

 This is obviously a gap in my abilities. I’m still going through the manuals and I saw some tutorials on the aim120. I’ve also done the basic aim120 tutorials that come with the f-16.

 But obviously that’s not enough. I was wondering if someone knows of tutorials (written, as mission/training, and/or YouTube clips) that teach me the use of the f-16 radar in multiple te target scenario’s. 

[=617= Evil]

What type of targets are they? Small? Maneuvering? I find TWS really tough to use with small fighter-size targets. Remember TWS is just trying to predict and build tracks when it sweeps over the targets. If the aspect is constantly changing, it will be tough to build tracks good enough for TWS lock. I typically stick with DTT in the RWS mode as that is far more reliable. 

However, for practicing your TWS and radar skills in general, check out this mission pack: https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/3328191/ 

Lots of good practice runs in there that are easy to run quickly while you're learning. 

Happy hunting. 

[BaronVonVaderham]

Thanks  

the targets are indeed small and are manoeuvring, as they are engaged by another group of friendlies. 
I guess I’m still learning about the shortcomings and limitations of radars and their different operating modes. 
I’ll check out the mission you linked to, thanks!

[BaronVonVaderham]

@=617= Evil

tried the 1 on 1 bvr about 10 times and failed. I never get the target on my radar, only the empty awacs triangle, so I get shot down before I even get a radar lock, and that’s every time.the only way I get him is by going maddog and release once the A counter starts, but still get shot down by him too. Chaff flare don’t work evade won’t work.

I then tried the f-15 egress mission, and that’s pretty much the same. 
 

I must be missing something. I make sure I’m at the same altitude whenever I can, I focus the radar (azimuth minimal and bars minimal when at the same altitude, or as required depending on altitude difference), when I’m pointed at the target and on the same altitude, but nothing.

i tried without exam, no difference.

[=617= Evil]

3 hours ago, BaronVonVaderham said:

@=617= Evil

tried the 1 on 1 bvr about 10 times and failed. I never get the target on my radar, only the empty awacs triangle, so I get shot down before I even get a radar lock, and that’s every time.the only way I get him is by going maddog and release once the A counter starts, but still get shot down by him too. Chaff flare don’t work evade won’t work.

I then tried the f-15 egress mission, and that’s pretty much the same. 
 

I must be missing something. I make sure I’m at the same altitude whenever I can, I focus the radar (azimuth minimal and bars minimal when at the same altitude, or as required depending on altitude difference), when I’m pointed at the target and on the same altitude, but nothing.

i tried without exam, no difference.

That one's tough dude. (And it's supposed to be. It's in the advanced section for a reason.) For a couple reasons.

1. The JF-17 is a peer-level opponent for the Viper. The SD-10 is very capable and like your 120s, has a soft lock and passive guidance capability. Just because there's a missile in the air doesn't mean your launch warning will go off like with a Fox-1 or older Fox 3s, because the missile is getting guidance from the aircraft. I talk about this in the 'Without AWACS' mission briefing. I just realized it's missing from the AWACs version, so I'll fix that. But it means that once your warning goes off, the missile is probably in terminal guidance and there is mere seconds to impact.

2. The JF in that mission has a jammer, so you have to burn through to get a good lock. It's nasty to go up against, just like yours is. 

I've attached a track here where I defeat him. (Took me two missiles, but that's not uncommon.) My jammer is never even on, so take a look. Watch how I keep him in my radar until the 'A' on the HUD switches to a 'T' and then I crank all the way over to defend. He never even fires at me. 

My advice is to run the 'Weapons' missions for the 120. The [RWS] STT & DTT as well as the TWS Mode missions. These are threat-free environments where you can just focus on getting the radar mechanics down without worrying about getting shot down or getting task saturated.  

Last thing, don't get frustrated. I made these missions to practice the things that I personally had failed dozens upon dozens of times. It's difficult. Keep at it. 

Good hunting. 

Jeff BVR.trk

Edited September 6, 2023 by =617= Evil

[BaronVonVaderham]

Thanks! Your words are Encouraging. I’ll try your suggestions. 
as a note, I think the f-15 egress support mission is part of the viper package. I think they use migs as targets. I do get warnings, but I’m struggling with the defence, and I would have expected to be able to out perform the migs weapon wise. 
in fairness, if I recall I focused on one guy who went defensive, whereas the rest of his squadron went after me. It’s probably where tws would have been useful to target and fire upon all of them to make them all defensive (or blow up).

[razo+r]

If you attach short tracks of your attempts, people will be able to help you more specificly rather than giving generic advises. 

[Keith Briscoe]

On 9/6/2023 at 3:50 AM, BaronVonVaderham said:

Thanks! Your words are Encouraging. I’ll try your suggestions. 
as a note, I think the f-15 egress support mission is part of the viper package. I think they use migs as targets. I do get warnings, but I’m struggling with the defence, and I would have expected to be able to out perform the migs weapon wise. 
in fairness, if I recall I focused on one guy who went defensive, whereas the rest of his squadron went after me. It’s probably where tws would have been useful to target and fire upon all of them to make them all defensive (or blow up).

Baron, just want to say I'm pretty much right with you - struggling with f16 radar.

Appreciate the missions from 617 evil and look f9rward to working thru those.

Guess I got spoiled by f15c...

[Geraki]

Question i need steps to show me how can i add message and voice triggers in a BVR or ACM mission , with Invulnerability and a message and voice " You are heated" when a, aim120 or aim 9 or guns heat an aircraft and the pilot can read and hear the Heated message but do not die.

 

This could be for training purposes 

[razo+r]

5 minutes ago, Geraki said:

Question i need steps to show me how can i add message and voice triggers in a BVR or ACM mission , with Invulnerability and a message and voice " You are heated" when a, aim120 or aim 9 or guns heat an aircraft and the pilot can read and hear the Heated message but do not die.

 

This could be for training purposes 

This is what you are looking for: https://flightcontrol-master.github.io/MOOSE_DOCS_DEVELOP/Documentation/Functional.Fox.html
Might not work for guns though.

Edited November 8, 2023 by razo+r

[Geraki]

18 hours ago, razo+r said:

This is what you are looking for: https://flightcontrol-master.github.io/MOOSE_DOCS_DEVELOP/Documentation/Functional.Fox.html
Might not work for guns though.

 

@razo+r

Thank you very much sir , i will try this  but first is there any other more quicker and user friendly method from Mission Editor to assign  Invulnerability  for the aircrafts and add triggers from editor menu with message and sound on missiles heat?

I am not familiar with ME and if you show me step by step how  to do it i will appreciated a lot.

[razo+r]

12 minutes ago, Geraki said:

@razo+r

Thank you very much sir , i will try this  but first is there any other more quicker and user friendly method from Mission Editor to assign  Invulnerability  for the aircrafts and add triggers from editor menu with message and sound on missiles heat?

I am not familiar with ME and if you show me step by step how  to do it i will appreciated a lot.

That script is very user friendly and easy to set up. Setting something similar up with triggers is more tedious than the script.

But basically, turn on the invulnerability setting in the mission setting, or assign it "invulneral" in advanced waypoints.

Set up trigger zones with the size of your liking and link it to a unit

Then, in triggers, set up something like

continuous - rocket in zone - send message

Or something like this. But as I said, the script is far easier and quicker to set up.