Apache FLIR vs TV performance impact - 81 to 14 FPS - video and trk file attached

[Zyll]

EDITED per request for a clean mission with no script errors or mod dependencies. Results are essentially identical, but I did record a new video, updated the FPS numbers below to match the video, and provided a new track file.

Realizing that this is a worst-case scenario where I'm looking at trees and buildings in the distance, I still feel that the performance of the TV is excessively bad compared to the FLIR, and at highest zoom level, the TADS on TV will absolutely tank any system given these testing parameters.

Taking a simple single player mission, spawning at Incirlik and occupying the CPG seat.

Maximum field of view with the TADS on FLIR - 85 FPS

Maximum zoom with the TADS on FLIR - 78 FPS

Maximum field of view with the TADS on TV - 48 FPS

Maximum zoom with the TADS on TV - 14 FPS

My system is a Ryzen 3800X3D with 32GB of RAM and a Radeon 6900XT with 16GB of VRAM

 

FLIR TV FPS test (clean mission).trk

Zyll Apache TADS performance - Syria.miz

Edited September 7, 2023 by Zyll
new trk file and video from clean mission w/o script errors

[Floyd1212]

I got a bunch of script failures when launching the track for playback.  But after clicking through all of them, and watching my FPS while you were switching between TADS modes:

FLIR stayed at 60 FPS (vsync locked to 60 for my monitor)

TV dropped to about 45 FPS for both levels of zoom.  I didn't see any difference when you went from Wide to Zoom.

I am running MT on a Core i7-9700K 64GB of RAM, and a 3090 w 24GB of VRAM.  I will be interested to see what others are getting on the same combo you are running.  Obviously, there are other graphics settings that could be different, as well.

[Zyll]

Oh I bet the script errors are just because I have some local Lua that the mission runs from my c drive, nothing that should affect the results. Thanks for trying it out on your system.

Note that I do run with render distance set to ultra, which may be a factor, or possibly other settings that we might have different between our two systems. It's interesting to me that the max zoom in TV mode performed much better for you than for me.

Zyll @ TAW

[petsild]

I can't play the recording, probably the map I don't have. For a long time now, I have been observing a large drop in fps even on the RTX 4090 in TV mode.

Edit:

Despite confirming the errors, it was able to run.

Edited September 7, 2023 by petsild

[Lord Vader]

Hello @Zyll

I tested your track and I can see that heavy frame drop you describe using the TV optic on the TADS in zoom mode. 

However, your mission here is extremely heavy scripted, I had to close several windows of non-running scripts. You say these scripts "don't affect results" but I am not sure. You see, I ran a simple mission in Caucasus, no scripts or mods, and I was unable to reproduce the issue. 

There was a slight oscillation when changing modes, but certainly not as abrupt and clearly not as low. 

What I would advise is that you try a clean mission yourself in the Caucasus as I did and check if you have the same issue without all these mods running or in that heavily loaded mission. If the problem persist, please do share a new track and we'll continue to analyse this situation. 

[Zyll]

i'll create a new bug thread with a clean mission and will link to it here. Apologies for the scripting errors (the mission is otherwise very minimal).

EDIT: Actually for consistency, I'll just update the original post instead with a clean mission.

It's possible this is a Syria-specific issue. Note that if I do the same test at At Tanf in Syria, it doesn't have a bad FPS drop-off at all. This though doesn't necessarily mean Syria is bugged in places, but it could be the combination of trees/buildings at distance that could result in huge performance drop-off.

My biggest concern, is how the TV performs much much worst than the FLIR. Given that the TV is often our only way to get such a high zoom magnification, it is that exact situation where we potentially get the worst performance in-game. 

Edited September 7, 2023 by Zyll

[Zyll]

@Lord Vader please see original post for new track and new video (same results). I created it in the same location as the original, as hunting for a poorly-performing spot in Caucasus may be difficult. I could have probably parked anywhere at Andersen in Marianas Islands and gotten similar results looking to the west, but I think everyone acknowledges that Marianas has its own issues.

Again, the point is not to call out an issue specifically at Incirlik in Syria, but rather to illustrate how the TADS FLIR and TV are so massively divergent in their performance, given specific conditions.

Thank you all for your attention.

[Floyd1212]

I played your new track and got similar results as last time.

FLIR Wide = 60 fps (vsync)

FLIR Zoom = 60 fps (vsync)

TV Wide = 53 fps

TV Zoom = 47 fps

These are my graphics settings. (I make no claim that these settings are optimized):

Does it matter what you are looking at with the TADS?  Same results when looking at the sky?

Are you exporting the TEDAC display to an external monitor?

[Zyll]

for the test i don't even move the TADS at all. I am pretty certain that if you are looking at sky or empty desert land, the results on FPS will me much different.

To answer your question, no I'm not exporting displays, just simple pancake screen (ultra-wide) with TrackIR. 

Maybe the clues are in the forest details and visibility. I can try using your settings to try to figure out what is the x-factor here. Attached are my settings:

null

Edited September 7, 2023 by Zyll

[Zyll]

emulating @Floyd1212's settings exactly, I still get basically the same results as I was getting originally. Maybe its the 32GB of RAM I have vs his 64GB, though I don't see RAM maxing out in my system overlay.

[petsild]

I confirm a large fps drop in TV mode, from the FLIR TV FPS test (clean mission).trk file.

[Dragzor]

TV camera is more taxing as it's showing shadows I guess. I got huge fps drop with F16 and TGP in the evening, night at syria incirlik(tested at caucasus and there no issue). When taxiing and having TGP TV is making my fps counter from 120 to 10-15, when switching to WHOT/BHOT frames go back to 120+.

[Zyll]

Thanks Dragzor and others for adding your observations. I do think that there are certain conditions, maybe unique to Syria, or just more likely to occur in Syria, that exacerbate this issue. If I'm in a remote desert part of the map, or in Caucasus for example, I may not see such dramatic frame loss when switching to TV. My example in Incirlik is repeatable by many folks, so I'm hopeful that devs can use it to identify why using the TV causes occasional extreme frame drops and rectify. Just because it doesn't happen everywhere in Syria or anywhere on Caucasus, doesn't mean it's not a bug.

Zyll @ TAW

[FalcoGer]

I made a similar report a while back, TV vs FLIR when looking into forests at shallow angles.

I since got a new graphics card, which makes things playable again, but it's still dropping frames considerably.

Maybe it's related, or maybe it's not.

 

[BIGNEWY]

For now we will have to wait and see what tweaks Ugra media can do for Syria terrain for those having issues. 

thanks 

[okopanja]

Similar issue exists in Ka-50 with Shkval (I can not find the reported issue atm). I think it started around the time BS2 was reworked last year in preparation for BS3 release, even on Caucasus.

[BIGNEWY]

8 minutes ago, okopanja said:

Similar issue exists in Ka-50 with Shkval (I can not find the reported issue atm). I think it started around the time BS2 was reworked last year in preparation for BS3 release, even on Caucasus.

Ka-50 issue is slightly different, the missile in the Shkval view when fired creates the issue. 

This thread seems to be Syria related. 

thanks

[okopanja]

7 minutes ago, BIGNEWY said:

Ka-50 issue is slightly different, the missile in the Shkval view when fired creates the issue. 

I've seen this even without firing the missile, therefore my thought that some of the shared code is what is causing this.

Drop from 80 to 30 or below. I will try to lookup matching topic.

[BIGNEWY]

1 minute ago, okopanja said:

I've seen this even without firing the missile, therefore my thought that some of the shared code is what is causing this.

Drop from 80 to 30 or below. I will try to lookup matching topic.

please make a new thread with a track replay example for the Ka-50. 

thanks