F1-BE rear Seat HUD and VR

[HE5405]

When in the back seat the HUD repeater moves left/right/up/down with the angle of the headset as opposed to staying in the glass. 

[formaggio]

I believe this is accurate for the type of screen it is. The radar in the M2K does the same thing, but there is a special option to disable it which would be much appreciated for the BE.

[average_pilot]

I have a hard time believing that's accurate. I can't imagine a real life pilot flying safely with that display in front of their eyes doing what it does in DCS.

I still haven't had time to really understand what is going on but it is a if the collimation effect is not happening while the image moves with the head movements as if it were collimated.

[burritto]

I also get a lot of double images, similar to a cross eyed effect.  It just doesn't feel realistic at all in VR. I'm a retired fast jet pilot and instructor, though on the jet I instructed on we had a HUD camera that was projected onto a flat screen rather than viewing through a lens like in the F1 so it was different.

[Goofy12]

+1 definitely wrong, the whole picture moves with your head, its not a parallax shifting with head movement. 

[average_pilot]

8 hours ago, average_pilot said:

it is a if the collimation effect is not happening while the image moves with the head movements as if it were collimated.

After some more testing I think that's exactly what is happening. If you go to the front seat and alternatively close one eye and the other you can see how the HUD symbology changes its position within the HUD frame and thus creating the illusion of collimated display in stereo-3D.

But if you do the same at the back seat the image does not change its position, it's rendered at the same depth than the display glass like a MFD, but still moves following the position of the head like a HUD, and the end result is quite perplexing.

[Capt_Haddock]

The movement is actually correct. It's a reflection from the horizontal screen bellow into an angled mirror, just like a reflector gunsight. It shouldn't stay fixed on the glass like an LDC screen. It's actually a pretty realistic implementation.

But there is a small problem nevertheless: The "reflection" is a disc floating in front of the mirror, but it should be drawn behind the mirror. Again, just like a reflector gunsight from WW2: the targeting circle is not drawn on the glass, it's projected behind the glass

Edited October 20, 2023 by Capt_Haddock

[Capt_Haddock]

Here is a video of the actual thing (5:00). Not the best quality, but you can see how the image, and in particular the HUD symbology, moves like it would do on a reflector gunsight. You can also see how the image is projected further back than in the game.
 

 

[chichowalker]

More realistic position of this repeater is observed in VR when you see the camera just with one eye. For me that's looks like more natural.

Enviado desde mi 21051182G mediante Tapatalk

[average_pilot]

1 hour ago, Capt_Haddock said:

The movement is actually correct. It's a reflection from the horizontal screen bellow into an angled mirror, just like a reflector gunsight. It shouldn't stay fixed on the glass like an LDC screen. It's actually a pretty realistic implementation.

But there is a small problem nevertheless: The "reflection" is a disc floating in front of the mirror, but it should be drawn behind the mirror. Again, just like a reflector gunsight from WW2: the targeting circle is not drawn on the glass, it's projected behind the glass

 

Exactly, that's what I was trying to explain. It moves with the head like a collimated display (which incidentally looks perfect in 2D) but the picture is rendered at the wrong depth, like in a regular display. In 2D goes totally unnoticed but in 3D sticks out like a sore thumb.

[Capt_Haddock]

I've found another video. This time is a Mirage 2000B, but it uses the same type of repeater HUD
 

 

[TORC]

Windows Mixed Reality using Lenovo 1st gen headset, OpenXR and PD 1.1.

I notice that the projection of the TV image seems very close - I expect to have to focus my eyes out like the HUD (out to the terrain), but when using both eyes to look at the HUD repeater I have to ... well it feels like I almost have to cross my eyes to bring the image of the HUD repeater together. This, combined with the movement as if the image is focussed out to infinity (or thereabouts) seems weird.

This might be related to how DCS renders mirrors and screens, so might be beyond Aerges' ability to fix, but this is what I found.

[Mnemonic]

I can concur, repeater HUD implementation has to be fixed for VR, it's eye straining and incorrect when used in VR headset.

It doesn't work like on the videos posted here, it's rendered at the wrong stereoscopic depth, and reacts to the head movements.

I hope devs can check this issue, would be pretty sweet to have it fixed.

Edited January 1, 2024 by Mnemonic

[Hammer1-1]

sounds like a similar issue with the periscope in the Mi24 where you feel like you're looking through the scope crosseyed.

[AlpineGTA]

Is this an acknowledged bug? Are there plans to fix it? It's not as shown in the videos above of the real thing, or like the M2000 radar, it's definitely moving with your head in VR. I was disappointed to see it wasn't fixed in the latest patch. 

[fausete]

Hi, @AlpineGTA

It is fixed internally, we just didn't make it in time for the update. It has not been an easy fix, as this is the first collimator in DCS occluded by cockpit geometry, so it has required a lot of testing and tweaking.

[average_pilot]

Excellent news! 

[AlpineGTA]

2 hours ago, fausete said:

Hi, @AlpineGTA

It is fixed internally, we just didn't make it in time for the update. It has not been an easy fix, as this is the first collimator in DCS occluded by cockpit geometry, so it has required a lot of testing and tweaking.

Great! Thank you.