fixed Su-25 T Mercury pod bugged?

[PawlaczGMD]

Doing the Su-25 T Mercury pod training mission, the screen looks bugged after turning the pod on.

 

Screenshots of the view with just the Shkval, and with Mercury on. The Mercury has the top right flooded with something very bright, while the rest is dark. This stays constant as you maneuver the aircraft, or slew the pod.

 

This is both in VR and normal.

[Flappie]

Thanks for the heads up.

The issue is now reported.

[Flappie]

Issue fixed with today's OB update.

[bmbpdk]

47 minutes ago, Flappie said:

Issue fixed with today's OB update.

Just to be clear, the Mercury pod is a light intensifying pod and not a infra red pod?

[Skuva]

1 hour ago, bmbpdk said:

Just to be clear, the Mercury pod is a light intensifying pod and not a infra red pod?

It is basically just gen 2 night vision. But what we always got in DCS was actually a frankenstein monster mixing the Mercury with the Khod (actual FLIR).

In real life the Mercury just stinked hard. It was just old tech night vision on cocaine, it had separate lenses for the 2 zoom options, and one of them wasn't even movable, pilots had to spot targets on the fixed wide fov image, then zoom in, and then move the camera towards the location he remember to have seen the target, AND IT WASN'T EVEN STABILIZED!!! That's why results in tests where very underwhelming and the thing never saw the light of day, badum tss.

I'm not sure if making the Mercury more and more realistic is the best way to go considering this plane is the first most players get to experience.

I bet players would hate using a realistic version of the Mercury, as it would be at least 10x worse than using the Shkval (given numbers on spoting distances). And considering ED already entered the realm of semi-historical gadgets with the Ka-50, and our current Mercury is still quite far from the real thing with some unrealistic features while lacking others, like adjustable contrast/brightness, I don't see why not just go for a franken MerKhod.

You can read a bit more about it here:
https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/soviet-targeting-pods-mercuriy-lltv.40466/#post-565967

Edited November 16, 2023 by Skuva

[PawlaczGMD]

8 hours ago, Skuva said:

It is basically just gen 2 night vision. But what we always got in DCS was actually a frankenstein monster mixing the Mercury with the Khod (actual FLIR).

In real life the Mercury just stinked hard. It was just old tech night vision on cocaine, it had separate lenses for the 2 zoom options, and one of them wasn't even movable, pilots had to spot targets on the fixed wide fov image, then zoom in, and then move the camera towards the location he remember to have seen the target, AND IT WASN'T EVEN STABILIZED!!! That's why results in tests where very underwhelming and the thing never saw the light of day, badum tss.

I'm not sure if making the Mercury more and more realistic is the best way to go considering this plane is the first most players get to experience.

I bet players would hate using a realistic version of the Mercury, as it would be at least 10x worse than using the Shkval (given numbers on spoting distances). And considering ED already entered the realm of semi-historical gadgets with the Ka-50, and our current Mercury is still quite far from the real thing with some unrealistic features while lacking others, like adjustable contrast/brightness, I don't see why not just go for a franken MerKhod.

You can read a bit more about it here:
https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/soviet-targeting-pods-mercuriy-lltv.40466/#post-565967

 

This sounds rough, as even the stabilized pod is not that good compared to Western sensors. Since it's a low-fidelity model anyway, it's fine to leave it as-is I think...

[bmbpdk]

17 hours ago, Skuva said:

It is basically just gen 2 night vision. But what we always got in DCS was actually a frankenstein monster mixing the Mercury with the Khod (actual FLIR).

In real life the Mercury just stinked hard. It was just old tech night vision on cocaine, it had separate lenses for the 2 zoom options, and one of them wasn't even movable, pilots had to spot targets on the fixed wide fov image, then zoom in, and then move the camera towards the location he remember to have seen the target, AND IT WASN'T EVEN STABILIZED!!! That's why results in tests where very underwhelming and the thing never saw the light of day, badum tss.

I'm not sure if making the Mercury more and more realistic is the best way to go considering this plane is the first most players get to experience.

I bet players would hate using a realistic version of the Mercury, as it would be at least 10x worse than using the Shkval (given numbers on spoting distances). And considering ED already entered the realm of semi-historical gadgets with the Ka-50, and our current Mercury is still quite far from the real thing with some unrealistic features while lacking others, like adjustable contrast/brightness, I don't see why not just go for a franken MerKhod.

You can read a bit more about it here:
https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/soviet-targeting-pods-mercuriy-lltv.40466/#post-565967

 

Thank you very much for your answer and for the link.

Not to be pedantic but night vision is just the name of the category of enhancing ones ability to see in the dark.
It is not limited to one specific technology, IR or light intensifying (LI).
Night vision is often and generally accepted as the name for the "Light intensifying".
Like people call windturbines for windmills, we all know what they mean even though they are not technically correct.
What we had before 2.9 was more like a IR pod, now its a LI, and in the manual it is described as a LLTV, which actually does not technically mean anything.
During my Army time we learned the difference between the two, IR and LI, and i used both technologies for some years, its like saying that benzin/gasoline and diesel is the same, it is but it is not.

I guess that a "true-to-life" Su-25 sans suffix is out of the question giving the current geopolitical situation.
But im sure that if a full fidelity Su-25 sans suffix was made, it would be a great sell, giving that more modern sensors where available.

[PawlaczGMD]

After the recent fix, the Mercury is actually really really useful in the game. The SU-25 Shkval has such poor contrast, I can barely make out the targets against the background. In the Ka-50, the screen looks completely different, and it's way easier to spot targets. Are these supposed to be exactly the same? They are definitely not... Contrast and brightness settings would go a long way! This is to the point that I'm considering just mounting the Mercury for day operations to be able to spot stuff without cheating with the labels.

[bmbpdk]

4 hours ago, PawlaczGMD said:

After the recent fix, the Mercury is actually really really useful in the game. The SU-25 Shkval has such poor contrast, I can barely make out the targets against the background. In the Ka-50, the screen looks completely different, and it's way easier to spot targets. Are these supposed to be exactly the same? They are definitely not... Contrast and brightness settings would go a long way! This is to the point that I'm considering just mounting the Mercury for day operations to be able to spot stuff without cheating with the labels.

In my DCS version; DCS Open Beta 2.9.1.48111 you cannot use Mercury pod during daylight, since its a light intensifying pod and not a thermal pod.
Trying to use the pod in daylight just blinds the pod and all you see is a bright spot.
It is literally useless during daylight.

And dont forget that the Ka-50 is a full fidelity module, the Su-25T is sadly only a Flaming Cliffs level module.

[PawlaczGMD]

1 hour ago, bmbpdk said:

In my DCS version; DCS Open Beta 2.9.1.48111 you cannot use Mercury pod during daylight, since its a light intensifying pod and not a thermal pod.
Trying to use the pod in daylight just blinds the pod and all you see is a bright spot.
It is literally useless during daylight.

And dont forget that the Ka-50 is a full fidelity module, the Su-25T is sadly only a Flaming Cliffs level module.

Yeah I was wrong about that, lol. The Su-25 Shkval does look like absolute ass though. 

I was basing it on some older video I saw on YT - I was checking how the un-bugged Mercury works. It used to be like FLIR, where vehicles stood out as bright white. Not anymore, now it's actually just a LLTV like it's supposed to. Not that great, but realistic.

Edited November 19, 2023 by PawlaczGMD

[Skuva]

39 minutes ago, PawlaczGMD said:

Yeah I was wrong about that, lol. The Su-25 Shkval does look like absolute ass though. 

Part of what makes it look so much worse than the Ka-50 is the old paper texture that goes over the screen. You can see it here https://forum.dcs.world/topic/327959-su25t-shkval-contrast/#comment-5315132 as I attempted to give it a more realistic look, which involved darkening the texture. It improves contrast a bit when in shadows, and reduce considerably the effect of the sun over it.

 

Edited November 19, 2023 by Skuva

[PawlaczGMD]

21 minutes ago, Skuva said:

Part of what makes it look so much worse than the Ka-50 is the old paper texture that goes over the screen. You can see it here https://forum.dcs.world/topic/327959-su25t-shkval-contrast/#comment-5315132 as I attempted to give it a more realistic look, which involved darkening the texture. It improves contrast a bit when in shadows, and reduce considerably the effect of the sun over it.

 

 

Will you release it as a mod? Looks like an improvement. I agree that this screen just doesn't play well with newer graphics. The Ka-50 screen is so much better, I can see all I need to see. Although it has weird shadow glitches sometimes...

[Skuva]

On 11/19/2023 at 9:07 AM, PawlaczGMD said:

Will you release it as a mod? Looks like an improvement. I agree that this screen just doesn't play well with newer graphics. The Ka-50 screen is so much better, I can see all I need to see. Although it has weird shadow glitches sometimes...

I'm not sure if I can just publish it, because I'm doing stuff on top of other people's work. For example the Su-25T, I'm modifying on top of Devrim's translated textures. I might redo it on the original russian cockpit and post it for everyone, but that will take time and good mood.

I'm also still looking into modifying shader files to change the tint when the shkval is On, but that enters a completely diferent realm from just editing images, that I'm still learning.

EDIT: I'm in a good mood  (https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/3334407/)

Edited November 21, 2023 by Skuva

[Bashibazouk]

Brilliant! I assumed the problem as raised by the OP was something to do with my system, I'd been moving mods in and out, rebuilding etc but, of course no joy :D.

It looks much more realistic now than it did previously at night. Ok, it's not perfectly realistic, but it no longer looks as odd as it always did.

 

Of course, I was half way through the Georgian Oil War Campaign and prior to this improvement, both this campaign and another user campaign I'm playing assumed the pod was usable during the day. You start missions with the pod installed. I can just swap the pod out, the problem is the missions have been setup on the assumption they were do-able with the easier spotting of the fake thermals of the old setup. With the overcast weather, the standard TV just doesn't allow spotting of nasties before it's too late and the Mercury can't be used as it blows out in daylight. Never mind. I can tweak the user campaign (either adjust the weather or move the SAMs, or downgrade them maybe) and I guess I'll just put Georgian Oil War on ice until the creator gets around to adjusting it. 

I'd rather have the change as it is now. I 'fly' the SU-25T when I feel like a quick and easy mission, so I jump in occasionally but fairly regularly so it's nice to know it's not a complete orphan of a product.

Edited November 21, 2023 by Bashibazouk