Pitch Stick-Input

[Cougar747]

Hello all,

beeing a newbie to the cat and coming from civil aviation procedures I‘m trying to get the hang of operating the F-14 ( or any other modern fighterjet ) properly.

So here I‘ve got a kind of philosophical question:

When flying the F-14 ( or any other modern jet ) in the landing pattern ( carrier or shore ) is a pitch input on the stick generally considered a taboo?

In other words: is Altitude / vertical speed controlled solely by the power and trim?

Or are there instances in which pitch input on the stick is necessary/advantageous during these stages of flight ( break / downwind / final turn / groove )?

Am I right that pitch input on the stick to control Altitude and/or vertical speed is only used during cruise / high speed flight / maneuvers?

Thank you very much in advance and best regards,

 

Toto

 

[speed-of-heat]

Minimised is the word I would use, most of pitch is done with a combo of throttle and trim

[Gareth Barry]

I've also wondered about this, particularly since I am building a set of f14 throttles that have functioning autothrottles- the NATOPS specifically says that autothrottle can be selected on the downwind leg before final 'if desired', thereby implying to me at least that it is perfectly valid to select autothrottle for even CASE 1 approaches. In that case, the way to get more power if you need it is to pull back on the stick, and vice versa. Having said that, listening to interviews with LSOs, they seem to imply that the only perfect landing is one which has zero corrections at all, not pitch, throttle, nada, but coming into a perfect 3 wire in around 17 seconds of groove time. In other words, the turn on to final approach is managed such that when the jet has rolled out, it is lined up perfectly laterally, at the correct altitude, on speed and with perfect sink rate, with zero subsequent corrections needed. Seems almost impossible to me, but there you go. Interviews also seem to suggest that it was all the more difficult with the tomcat to get good scores because the jet telegraphed any and all corrections to the LSO.

[Spiceman]

Standard instrument flying… pitch for airspeed (AOA), power for altitude (vertical speed). Use pitch and trim to achieve and maintain on-speed AOA and use power for vertical speed and altitude. Pitch input can’t possibly be taboo since you can’t maintain AOA without it. If you’re properly trimmed on-speed in the downwind, it will naturally be minimal. 

[Cougar747]

Thank you all,

what I notice very frequently ( especially when trying to follow the excellent Case I guide from „Victory 205“ ) is that after coming out of the break and rolling out on downwind the cat shows a pronounced ballooning effect, that I simply can‘t counteract with the sole reduction of power only ( even not when pulling the engines back to idle ). Of course, the cat will eventually settle but when that happens, I‘ve gained already some hundred feet of Altitude.

Same holds true for the rollout into the groove.

So, in order to counteract that ballooning effect, I apply a ( at times significant ) forward push on the stick, which is in turn counterproductive for maintaining/establishing on speed AoA.

What is your technique to counteract ballooning effects when coming out of a turn ( with on speed AoA )?

Thank you and best regards,

Toto

[Gareth Barry]

I think what helps me is to hear "Slammer" Richardson's voice in my head telling me to be '2 steps ahead of the jet.' In this particular instance, for me that means working the throttles by small amounts, but constantly. I know that kinda contradicts what I said earlier, but at this stage in my 'flying' (250 hours in the 'cat) I have my hands full trying to manage lineup, ball and groove time and being consistent. I find that I land better after I've done some inflight refuelling, as it forces me to have finesse with the throttle, particularly in terms of being 'ahead' of it, ie accounting for the delay in perceptibe repsonse from whatever input i make from the throttle. Oh, and some interviews do mention small blips of DLC here and there. I know victory 205 says it's really just to counteract ballooning over the ramp, but I have heard other pilots talk about using in other parts of the pattern. In any case, I do try to keep it to a minimum.

Personally, I found that a mistake i was making was not adding sufficient power prior to the final turn onto the groove - all because I didn't want to spoil my beautiful on-speed trim that I had worked to achieve on the downwind leg. This would result in my losing too much altitude during the final turn, then intercepting the glideslope too close to the boat, and with a hell of a lot of work to do to get properly trimmed when I finally did get the ball in the right place but with very little time left to keep it there. Far better to add some power in the final turn, manage the descent properly, to come out right smack bang where the needles cross on the TID, giving me sufficient time to trim for the groove onto (hopefully) a perfect 3 wire.

Sorry if some of this if OT.

[draconus]

23 hours ago, Cougar747 said:

...after coming out of the break and rolling out on downwind the cat shows a pronounced ballooning effect, that I simply can‘t counteract with the sole reduction of power only ( even not when pulling the engines back to idle )

But you should have the engines idle in the break and only apply power when you approach the on-speed.

Don't be shy to use the stick - you always fly with the stick first and foremost. Trim is just for relieving the force on it. Once you're dirty, on-speed, downwind you should trim it out and then fly with throttle/stick, DLC including.

Before the turn you expect losing lift so you add power. Same with coming out of the bank - you expect the added lift with the leveling out so you reduce the power beforehand.

[RustBelt]

On 11/14/2023 at 9:11 AM, Cougar747 said:

Thank you all,

what I notice very frequently ( especially when trying to follow the excellent Case I guide from „Victory 205“ ) is that after coming out of the break and rolling out on downwind the cat shows a pronounced ballooning effect, that I simply can‘t counteract with the sole reduction of power only ( even not when pulling the engines back to idle ). Of course, the cat will eventually settle but when that happens, I‘ve gained already some hundred feet of Altitude.

Same holds true for the rollout into the groove.

So, in order to counteract that ballooning effect, I apply a ( at times significant ) forward push on the stick, which is in turn counterproductive for maintaining/establishing on speed AoA.

What is your technique to counteract ballooning effects when coming out of a turn ( with on speed AoA )?

Thank you and best regards,

Toto

Stop flying the Tomcat like the Hornet. It doesn’t have FBW to wipe your buns  for you. You must be the feedback controller in the Tomcat. Which with a spring centered joystick, is hell.