Looking at upgrading from a G2...the Crystal vs Aero debate

[speed-of-heat]

20 minutes ago, edmuss said:

I went G2 to Aero back in May this year, to me vertical FOV is essentially the same, horizontal FOV is wider though - the viewport is more of a letterbox shape.  Think of the view out of a motorcycle helmet.  The crystal has more vertical FOV, particularly downwards so checking panels might be easier, this has never been an issue for me though, in the aero I can read both HUD and MFDs in the A10C just by moving my eyes.

Performance wise the aero is faster than the G2 when using varjo foveated due to the lower pixel count required. 

A sort of bad point to note about the aero, there is a slight motion blur that is apparent when moving your head, this does not bother me in the slightest however some it does.  It's nothing to do with the panel latency as fast moving objects whilst holding your head still are perfectly clear.  Varjo have said that there is nothing that can be done to fix the issue.  If you find it bothers you then you have a 14 day window to return it to varjo - just be eyes open.

I use 2 htc vive V1 base stations that I got from CEX for 50 quid each, both up front, slightly above the headset, canted inwards and downwards.  Tracking is perfect and I don't lose it even when checking 6.

I love my aero, it's super comfy, the active cooling is superb when it gets warm and the clarity and performance just works for me.  Is it perfect?  Possibly not but it's a great bit of kit.

do you still use turbo mode? 

[edmuss]

I do, it's enabled by default in varjo-foveated.  Like with WMR it's an edge case scenario as to whether it helps or not, very situation dependant.
I seem to recall that once it was proved out on WMR it was tested with varjo and found to be beneficial - I've seen no negatives from leaving it enabled

[speed-of-heat]

9 minutes ago, edmuss said:

I do, it's enabled by default in varjo-foveated.  Like with WMR it's an edge case scenario as to whether it helps or not, very situation dependant.
I seem to recall that once it was proved out on WMR it was tested with varjo and found to be beneficial - I've seen no negatives from leaving it enabled

ah good to know, so i can when my aero arrives deinstall OXRTK then , as its all inside the Varjo-foveated?

[edmuss]

Just now, speed-of-heat said:

ah good to know, so i can when my aero arrives deinstall OXRTK then , as its all inside the Varjo-foveated?

OXRTK isn't compatible with varjo-foveated so you will need to disable the DCS profile (you can still use it for other games of course), essentially all you will need is varjo-foveated.  Make sure you read the wiki but as long as you don't do anything silly then it's a very simple setup

If you're desperate to use openxr toolkit or OBSmirror then you will need to use QVFR, however it doesn't play as nicely with the aero as with other headsets and needs a little more configuration - there's a slightly higher CPU usage and an unfixed bug whereby the eye tracking data doesn't get passed forwards and it reverts to fixed foveated.  General consensus of opinion is that varjo-foveated just works better for the aero.

[speed-of-heat]

Thanks m8

[Rodeo]

12 hours ago, LtSpoon said:

@Rodeo

What about the vertical FOV? Is it really as small as many people report?

 

Personally I have not been impeded my the vertical FOV in my flying vs the Pimax 8kx; again this is my opinion and experience.  The only one complaint i have with the FOV, and it is minor, is that I have my mouse controls bound to my HOTAS and in the A10CII having the cursor centered line of sight I can not look down at my right panel and put the cursor on some of the switches/knobs to use my keybinds.  It is a small inconvenience and is the only limitation I have found.

 

[mmike87]

On 11/29/2023 at 10:41 AM, Dragon1-1 said:

I'd like to ask the same question. Clarity and tracking are fine for me with the G2, how much of an upgrade the Aero is, particularly with regards to FOV (both horizontal and vertical)? I know it has better lenses, and doesn't have some of G2's quirks, but how much better is it?

It's a huge upgrade IMO. Better clarity across most of the view even without DFR, more adjustments for fit, better software, better performance, and no crashes on startup line I had with my G2. The FOV is fine ... IMO comparable to the G2. We can always use more FOV. Audio? I like the option of choosing. I bought the Conquest VR clip-ons and a $30 pair of light headphones with a 3.5mm jack and a $10 coiled short cable with angled connectors. Works great.

[Dragon1-1]

I recently removed my HP's audio (with some difficulty, because some moron at HP applied threadlock to the mounting screws...), because I have a pair of very good, wireless, noise cancelling headphones. Sound is far better than any integrated VR sound, I suspect. I never had crashes on startup, and G2 is comfortable for me. Likewise, I don't have issues with WMR, now that everything is set up.

That said, I could use better clarity and more horizontal FOV, not to mention performance. Perhaps it's a good idea once money frees up.

[kevman]

My aero finally arrived! Clarity is amazing but it seems I am sensitive to the motion blur issue. I did not see too much of this topic in the dcs forum but it seems quite rampant on the varjo discord.

Anyone else experience this and got used to it? 

It basically occurs for instance if you look at some text on screen and move your head around - there is some slight ghosting.

Apparently varjo havr confirmed there is no fix - its a limitation of the hardware

[speed-of-heat]

57 minutes ago, kevman said:

My aero finally arrived! Clarity is amazing but it seems I am sensitive to the motion blur issue. I did not see too much of this topic in the dcs forum but it seems quite rampant on the varjo discord.

Anyone else experience this and got used to it? 

It basically occurs for instance if you look at some text on screen and move your head around - there is some slight ghosting.

Apparently varjo havr confirmed there is no fix - its a limitation of the hardware

not a problem i am experiencing... i have the "red" problem... not quite sure how to fix it... agree the clarity is amazing!

 

[kevman]

The red problem is easy there is a bat file to fix that

43 minutes ago, speed-of-heat said:

1 hour ago, kevman said:

My aero finally arrived! Clarity is amazing but it seems I am sensitive to the motion blur issue. I did not see too much of this topic in the dcs forum but it seems quite rampant on the varjo discord.

Anyone else experience this and got used to it? 

It basically occurs for instance if you look at some text on screen and move your head around - there is some slight ghosting.

Apparently varjo havr confirmed there is no fix - its a limitation of the hardware

Expand  

not a problem i am experiencing... i have the "red" problem... not quite sure how to fix it... agree the clarity is amazing!

https://forum.dcs.world/topic/300065-varjo-aero-general-guide-for-new-owners/page/43/

[speed-of-heat]

23 minutes ago, kevman said:

The red problem is easy there is a bat file to fix that

https://forum.dcs.world/topic/300065-varjo-aero-general-guide-for-new-owners/page/43/

the share password has expired?

[edmuss]

The motion blur is an odd one, it's been suggested that it's to do with frame prediction with head movements as it doesn't affect objects moving quickly (it's not an issues with the display persistence). It doesn't bother me at all although it is noticeable; eyes have just filtered it out. I guess it's worse for room scale play if you're moving your head a lot?

The redshift makes a big difference, @speed-of-heat check the varjo discord, there's a thread on the red fix in there. The password should still be live though.

https://discord.com/channels/839478779256897546/953295284841115709/1123979827163181157

Bernhard Bergers very handy GUI tool lets you quickly dial in and tweak the reshift offset value.  You currently need to apply the redshift fix every time you start up varjo base.

https://github.com/bernhardberger/OpticalAdjustmentGUI

Edited December 19, 2023 by edmuss

[kevman]

35 minutes ago, edmuss said:

. It doesn't bother me at all although it is noticeable; eyes have just filtered it out. I guess it's worse for room scale play if your moving your head a lot?

Thanks - i guess it is something i will just try and get used to. See how i feel before 14 day return period is up.

I intend to use aero for sim only

Edited December 19, 2023 by kevman

[freehand]

9 hours ago, kevman said:

Thanks - i guess it is something i will just try and get used to. See how i feel before 14 day return period is up.

I intend to use aero for sim only

 

how bad is the motion blur ? filtering it out with your eyes is a new one on me lol. 

[edmuss]

Same as any of the VR oddities, reprojection artifacts, chromatic aberration, lens distortion, lens blur, sub refresh rate stutter, display panel flicker etc. etc.

The human mind is very good at adapting, some people are more susceptible than others to certain things and VR is a very personal experience

[freehand]

Have you tried using the force.

[speed-of-heat]

I have, the distortion is not as bad as it was in wmr, it's still their but at much lower level.

[kevman]

10 hours ago, edmuss said:

The human mind is very good at adapting, some people are more susceptible than others to certain things and VR is a very personal experience

Having a good few hours with the headset yesterday i feel much happier and am starting not to notice it so much.

I am amazed at the spotting coming up from the index - i always thought that a lower res would improve spotting but i was wrong there

Going back to my index the headset had the same issue its just that because the sweet spot was much smaller you moved you eyes with your head so never noticed it

 

[Dangerzone]

16 hours ago, kevman said:

Having a good few hours with the headset yesterday i feel much happier and am starting not to notice it so much.

This is a relief to hear. I'm currently a HP user, but eyeing off the Aero as my next headset. Seeing problems such as these with "there will be no fix" come through was concerning and I was wondering how much these will affect me for a premium headset, or whether the Crystal would be the better choice. Your response has the Aero back on the cards again as my next replacement, so thanks for the update.

[The_Nephilim]

Hey All,

 

I have a few questions:

1. Does the Crystal use a battery or similar, also does it use a DisplayPort cable or USB-C?? I think the aero just uses a USB and DP connection?

2. I would like to know a rough estimate of the cost for both including what I need at a minimum to get either working in DCS and suc. I am not looking for all the extras just what is required to use both.. I am still confused to as what is needed for either headset..

3. Will a my specs be able to run either headset ok. like I just read the Pixels are lesss in the Aero, so if that is true can I adjust the percentage of the resolution I can run like I can in the Reverb G2 with either headset?

[kevman]

On 12/21/2023 at 1:48 AM, Dangerzone said:

On 12/20/2023 at 9:12 AM, kevman said:

Having a good few hours with the headset yesterday i feel much happier and am starting not to notice it so much.

This is a relief to hear. I'm currently a HP user, but eyeing off the Aero as my next headset. Seeing problems such as these with "there will be no fix" come through was concerning and I was wondering how much these will affect me for a premium headset, or whether the Crystal would be the better choice. Your response has the Aero back on the cards again as my next replacement, so thanks for the update.

I think it is all quite personal how you react to these things. If everyone felt it was a major issue i think there would be much more discussion on it. 

I have not noticed much about on this forum. Quite a bit of ranting on the varjo discord however!

At least with varjo you can have confidence that if you really want to send it back there is no problem.

[edmuss]

2 hours ago, kevman said:

I think it is all quite personal how you react to these things. If everyone felt it was a major issue i think there would be much more discussion on it. 

I have not noticed much about on this forum. Quite a bit of ranting on the varjo discord however!

At least with varjo you can have confidence that if you really want to send it back there is no problem.

You do only have 14 days to send it back though!

I think the difference is that with DCS the motion blur doesn't get noticed as much because you're not so often moving your head to look around at things that are close, cockpit panels are normally just quickly glanced at with the eyes.  If you are making large head movements then you're typically looking way outside of the cockpit and therefore not focussing on it up close and the blur becomes invisible.

Consider how it might be if you're racing in a car though, you turn your head to look into the apex of the corner and at the car along side you and the whole of the car cockpit around you blurs, I think the difference is the distance of the object on which you're focusing.

Certainly no one seems to mention it in any of the review videos for the aero...

[speed-of-heat]

10 minutes ago, edmuss said:

You do only have 14 days to send it back though!

I think the difference is that with DCS the motion blur doesn't get noticed as much because you're not so often moving your head to look around at things that are close, cockpit panels are normally just quickly glanced at with the eyes.  If you are making large head movements then you're typically looking way outside of the cockpit and therefore not focussing on it up close and the blur becomes invisible.

Consider how it might be if you're racing in a car though, you turn your head to look into the apex of the corner and at the car along side you and the whole of the car cockpit around you blurs, I think the difference is the distance of the object on which you're focusing.

Certainly no one seems to mention it in any of the review videos for the aero...

I actually think the blur is considerably less... on my wing tip sidewinder test, the "agitation" of the seeker head is much less like an over active sex toy and more like a momentary flicker 

[ColinM9991]

I've recently transitioned from a Reverb G2 to a Varjo Aero and gifted the G2 to a friend. I was unlucky enough to have bought the Aero like 1-2 weeks before it was permanently reduced in price, so that hurt a bit. Still, it was worth the money.

All in all it has been a great experience so far with the Aero. While at first I did notice the red/blue shift, I've gotten used to that now and have also made adjustments with the aforementioned optical adjustment tool to remediate the issue a bit.

My headband had an issue whereby the left adjustment dial wasn't locking in place so that was freely clicking/moving one over when gaming. Varjo didn't mess around as they first clarified whether I wanted to send the unit back or attempt the replacement myself. Once I'd confirmed my comfort in replacing the headband, they immediately dispatched a replacement which arrived several days later. It was tricky to install but I managed in the end.

As for FPS, I'm hitting a consistent 90FPS while running mbucchia's VFR and a focus_multiplier of 1.6 - although I do also have a 13900KF, 4090 and 64GB RAM.

One thing worth mentioning, although I think they've stopped selling them now, is that Varjo, the cheeky devils, have an almost 100% markup on Valve's Base stations. When I purchased my Aero, Varjo offered "discounted" base stations that were still £100 more expensive, per base station, than buying from Valve directly. If you're considering an Aero then absolutely make sure that you purchase the base stations from Valve directly at a more reasonable price.

The Aero can't really be turned off without unplugging it so I've got the Aero and both base stations running on some ESPHome flashed smart plugs that are configured in HomeAssistant. There's an automation job in HA so that both base stations will automatically turn on/off when I turn on/off the Aero smart plug

Edited December 22, 2023 by ColinM9991