single eng performance ?

[krazyj]

I find the single engine performance of the apache to be quite poor, if you loose an engine for whatever reason you are really in a bad situation and I had to do creeping takeoffs with no load what so ever. 

is the real apache this poor on single engine or har it been dialed down for "security" reasons ?

[speed-of-heat]

If its for security reasons nobody here would say...

[PawlaczGMD]

34 minutes ago, krazyj said:

I find the single engine performance of the apache to be quite poor, if you loose an engine for whatever reason you are really in a bad situation and I had to do creeping takeoffs with no load what so ever. 

is the real apache this poor on single engine or har it been dialed down for "security" reasons ?

If you lose an engine, you need to land ASAP, you're not supposed to be taking off...

[krazyj]

10 minutes ago, PawlaczGMD said:

If you lose an engine, you need to land ASAP, you're not supposed to be taking off...

Id normally agree but if you are in a hostile area Id prefer RTB

[NeedzWD40]

11 hours ago, krazyj said:

is the real apache this poor on single engine or har it been dialed down for "security" reasons ?

Yes. Single engine performance is severely inhibited in most dual engine helicopters as a rule. Consider the engine in question: T700-GE-701C offers a 2.5 minute contingency only for single engine operations (aka emergency) with a SHP of 1940. The 10 minute maximum is 1890 and the max continuous is 1662. Assuming you're doing the 10 minute with two engines, you've got 3780 SHP to work with. Even with the emergency limit, you're missing out on 1840 SHP - that's a lot of power to suddenly not have.

The other dual engine helicopters are similarly inhibited in single engine conditions. It's not a question of security, but basic physics. Ditch weapons, tell George to quit eating so many cheeseburgers, and get rolling for that sweet translational lift.

[Raptor9]

12 hours ago, krazyj said:

I find the single engine performance of the apache to be quite poor, if you loose an engine for whatever reason you are really in a bad situation and I had to do creeping takeoffs with no load what so ever. 

Single-engine operations are considered an emergency situation, not normal operation. Multi-engine aircraft are designed with the number of engines they have out of necessity to achieve the required amount of performance they need to fulfill their purpose. If a multi-engine aircraft did not need all of its engines to perform its mission, there would be no reason to use all of those engines, which would needlessly increase gross weight, fuel consumption, complexity, costs, maintenance requirements, logistics demands, etc.

Single-engine operation is meant for recovery to a friendly area where the aircraft can be repaired and put back into service, but this may come at the expense of aborting the mission, jettisoning external munitions, and losing hover capability; meaning you will need to keep your airspeed above the VSSE value shown in the TAS window on the PERF page.

If VSSE is displayed as "?", you cannot maintain level flight under single-engine power; which would be the case if at high altitudes, high temperatures, high gross weight, or a combination of these factors. In such a scenario you will want to try to attain the maximum endurance airspeed (the END value shown in the TAS window on the PERF page), which will give you the least amount of descent rate so that you can travel as far as possible to a suitable landing area before you are forced to land, or perhaps descend to a lower altitude in which a VSSE value exists. Jettisoning the external weapon pylons may lower the gross weight enough to achieve this as well.

Having the ability to maintain controlled flight with one engine operational, even for only a brief amount of time, is preferable to losing all engine power completely; which would result in an autorotation followed by a high vertical impact into the ground, at best. This means that even if you cannot return to a friendly airbase or FARP under single-engine power, it is more likely that the aircraft can be put down into a suitable landing area without injury to the crew and without damage to the airframe, allowing it to be recovered at a later time and put back into operation. Further, the other multi-engine helicopters in DCS will also be subject to the same situation. If you only have one engine operational in the Ka-50, Mi-24, or Mi-8, you will lose hover capability and will need to maintain a given forward airspeed to maintain flight, and may also be forced to jettison external munitions to achieve this.

[krazyj]

22 hours ago, Raptor9 said:

Single-engine operations are considered an emergency situation, not normal operation. Multi-engine aircraft are designed with the number of engines they have out of necessity to achieve the required amount of performance they need to fulfill their purpose. If a multi-engine aircraft did not need all of its engines to perform its mission, there would be no reason to use all of those engines, which would needlessly increase gross weight, fuel consumption, complexity, costs, maintenance requirements, logistics demands, etc.

Single-engine operation is meant for recovery to a friendly area where the aircraft can be repaired and put back into service, but this may come at the expense of aborting the mission, jettisoning external munitions, and losing hover capability; meaning you will need to keep your airspeed above the VSSE value shown in the TAS window on the PERF page.

If VSSE is displayed as "?", you cannot maintain level flight under single-engine power; which would be the case if at high altitudes, high temperatures, high gross weight, or a combination of these factors. In such a scenario you will want to try to attain the maximum endurance airspeed (the END value shown in the TAS window on the PERF page), which will give you the least amount of descent rate so that you can travel as far as possible to a suitable landing area before you are forced to land, or perhaps descend to a lower altitude in which a VSSE value exists. Jettisoning the external weapon pylons may lower the gross weight enough to achieve this as well.

Having the ability to maintain controlled flight with one engine operational, even for only a brief amount of time, is preferable to losing all engine power completely; which would result in an autorotation followed by a high vertical impact into the ground, at best. This means that even if you cannot return to a friendly airbase or FARP under single-engine power, it is more likely that the aircraft can be put down into a suitable landing area without injury to the crew and without damage to the airframe, allowing it to be recovered at a later time and put back into operation. Further, the other multi-engine helicopters in DCS will also be subject to the same situation. If you only have one engine operational in the Ka-50, Mi-24, or Mi-8, you will lose hover capability and will need to maintain a given forward airspeed to maintain flight, and may also be forced to jettison external munitions to achieve this.

Cheers Raptor, Im quite aware of SE vs ME performance, but I just seems the Apache is slightly underpowered in a SE situation. Maybe George does need to lay off the cheeseburgers. 

I dont recall my numbers from the latest flight but will certainly have a look next time and also the last flight I did was in Sanai so hot/humid would have been a factor for sure.

 

for the sake of M&B calculation, what weights are used for Pilot/George ?

[Longiron]

default in the WT page are 235 for pilot and cpg but you can check and or change

[Scaley]

This has been previously reported. Per many sources (and logic) if you pull one throttle to idle the torque on the remaining engine should double.  Do this in the DCS Apache and the torque goes to double plus about 20%. That's why you can't match the SE performance number in the manual or the PERF page.