Su-27M

[F-2]

This request is inspired by Ninelines post in the F-20 thread

 

I’ve always loved the Su-27M. This post got me thinking, if we can’t have a two seat Ka-52 but could have a limited service single seat Ka-50, might an Su-27m be ok? The Su-27m is more or less a single seat Su-30sm in terms of role. Some points.

 

Su-27m would probably have similar performance to an Su-33 but slightly less draggy airframe and higher G limit. Same fly by wire system. Shouldn't effect demand for air superiority Flanker like Su-27 or Su-30mkk.

 

Has a multimode plantar array radar, N011 bars, the mechanical scan version of the N011m pesa used on the SM (last two aircraft had pesa bars as well). Native R-77 compatible compared to J-11 jerry rigged solution.

has support for a large array of Soviet air to ground weapons.

Most development was Soviet rather then Russian, seems to effect how doable aircraft are.

in addition to prototypes and preproduction aircraft, three production jets were produced and operated by the Russian Air Force for a few years, same number as Su-25T.

 

anyway not sure how plausible it is but I thought I would suggest it.

[Exorcet]

It would make a great addition to DCS. I know some time ago ED proposed an idea of adding modules initially as FC level and then upgrading them to FF. I wonder if that is a more viable path for modern red air. FF is absolutely preferable to lower fidelity, but for planes where that is simply not possible, I wonder if other options could be considered. Technically it's happening to the MiG-29 I suppose.

[rob10]

1 hour ago, Exorcet said:

It would make a great addition to DCS. I know some time ago ED proposed an idea of adding modules initially as FC level and then upgrading them to FF. I wonder if that is a more viable path for modern red air. FF is absolutely preferable to lower fidelity, but for planes where that is simply not possible, I wonder if other options could be considered. Technically it's happening to the MiG-29 I suppose.

I don't recall that ED actually said this (FC then upgrade to FF) but I could be wrong.  I believe that was user wishlist to get more Red air.  ED have definitely said more recently that they can't really "upgrade" FC to FF, they pretty much have to start from scratch to build FF even if they have FC version.

[Gierasimov]

On 1/19/2024 at 3:49 PM, F-2 said:

I’ve always loved the Su-27M. This post got me thinking, if we can’t have a two seat Ka-52 but could have a limited service single seat Ka-50, might an Su-27m be ok? The Su-27m is more or less a single seat Su-30sm in terms of role. Some points.

Su-27m would probably have similar performance to an Su-33 but slightly less draggy airframe and higher G limit. Same fly by wire system. Shouldn't effect demand for air superiority Flanker like Su-27 or Su-30mkk.

Hi F-2, 

Sure, FF Sukhoi would be a welcomed addition to the DCS, no questions asked. 

Now. "Would probably", "slightly less draggy" should, would etc. won't cut it here. 

The most important thing is officially released documentation of the said airframe. To give you some perspective - when researching Cobra Whiskey, no such documentation was available and ED said "no, we can't", now that the documentation is available ED says "possible, down the line". 

The same is applicable to not only Sukhoi but ANY aircraft of ANY origin (maker, country, timeframe). 

It is much harder to do aircraft originated from Mikoyan or Sukhoi OKB due to the lack of officially available documentation that would allow ED to bring this into the game in as realistic setting as possible. The lack of such documentation might not necessarily function of secrecy but rather an ambivalent attitude towards releasing those.  

 

[Ramius007]

on low fidelity level it's just done but giving Flankers PL-12 missiles, it's about sanctioning this without lua scripts. God bless Deka for giving us J-11

Edited January 20, 2024 by Ramius007

[F-2]

10 minutes ago, Gierasimov said:

Hi F-2, 

Sure, FF Sukhoi would be a welcomed addition to the DCS, no questions asked. 

Now. "Would probably", "slightly less draggy" should, would etc. won't cut it here. 

The most important thing is officially released documentation of the said airframe. To give you some perspective - when researching Cobra Whiskey, no such documentation was available and ED said "no, we can't", now that the documentation is available ED says "possible, down the line". 

The same is applicable to not only Sukhoi but ANY aircraft of ANY origin (maker, country, timeframe). 

It is much harder to do aircraft originated from Mikoyan or Sukhoi OKB due to the lack of officially available documentation that would allow ED to bring this into the game in as realistic setting as possible. The lack of such documentation might not necessarily function of secrecy but rather an ambivalent attitude towards releasing those.  

 

Supposedly they cooperated in the past on an Su-27m sim.

http://www.migman.com/sw/su-35/Su-35.php
apparently as of a few years ago Sukhoi was up to cooperate. 

maybe not on an in service aircraft but something analog to the KA-50 with a developed aircraft like the Su-27m.

 

Edited January 20, 2024 by F-2

[Gierasimov]

11 minutes ago, F-2 said:

Supposedly they cooperated in the past on an Su-27m sim.

http://www.migman.com/sw/su-35/Su-35.php
 

 

Who do you mean by "they"?

If you want to discuss the simulation of late 90s' we should focus on Flanker / Flanker 2.0 / Flanker 2.5 as these were by Eagle Dynamics. 

However, by the "FC3 standard" we could assume that this public information is enough to build it:

Simulator Su-35 (topwar.ru)

[F-2]

38 minutes ago, Gierasimov said:

Who do you mean by "they"?

If you want to discuss the simulation of late 90s' we should focus on Flanker / Flanker 2.0 / Flanker 2.5 as these were by Eagle Dynamics. 

However, by the "FC3 standard" we could assume that this public information is enough to build it:

Simulator Su-35 (topwar.ru)

Sukhoi

 

also cool!

[Exorcet]

5 hours ago, rob10 said:

I don't recall that ED actually said this (FC then upgrade to FF) but I could be wrong.  I believe that was user wishlist to get more Red air.  ED have definitely said more recently that they can't really "upgrade" FC to FF, they pretty much have to start from scratch to build FF even if they have FC version.

This was years ago now. I believe a comment from Chiz or Yo-Yo. I don't think it was ever stated to be actively worked on, but was a consideration at the time. As there are currently no plans for new FC level aircraft, it seems that the consideration was dropped at some point.

Separately FF F-15 and other FC planes were mentioned years ago, but again not pursued.

[rob10]

39 minutes ago, Exorcet said:

This was years ago now. I believe a comment from Chiz or Yo-Yo. I don't think it was ever stated to be actively worked on, but was a consideration at the time. As there are currently no plans for new FC level aircraft, it seems that the consideration was dropped at some point.

Separately FF F-15 and other FC planes were mentioned years ago, but again not pursued.

Sorry, my comment was meant to be more general FC > FF, not specifically referring to SU-27 or any other aircraft.  They may have specifically talked about those aircraft, I just don't recall ED talking about making a FC aircraft and converting it to FF.

[F-2]

 

[upyr1]

On 1/19/2024 at 8:49 AM, F-2 said:

This request is inspired by Ninelines post in the F-20 thread

 

I’ve always loved the Su-27M. This post got me thinking, if we can’t have a two seat Ka-52 but could have a limited service single seat Ka-50, might an Su-27m be ok? The Su-27m is more or less a single seat Su-30sm in terms of role. Some points.

 

Su-27m would probably have similar performance to an Su-33 but slightly less draggy airframe and higher G limit. Same fly by wire system. Shouldn't effect demand for air superiority Flanker like Su-27 or Su-30mkk.

 

Has a multimode plantar array radar, N011 bars, the mechanical scan version of the N011m pesa used on the SM (last two aircraft had pesa bars as well). Native R-77 compatible compared to J-11 jerry rigged solution.

has support for a large array of Soviet air to ground weapons.

Most development was Soviet rather then Russian, seems to effect how doable aircraft are.

in addition to prototypes and preproduction aircraft, three production jets were produced and operated by the Russian Air Force for a few years, same number as Su-25T.

 

anyway not sure how plausible it is but I thought I would suggest it.

The problem is getting documentation, I don't see that happening unless there are some major political changes. There is zero harm in submitting the equivalent of a FOIA request with Russia and Sukhoi. Without the documentation the best I could expect to see would be a mod. I prefer to deal with older aircraft due to the issue of documention

[F-2]

2 hours ago, upyr1 said:

The problem is getting documentation, I don't see that happening unless there are some major political changes. There is zero harm in submitting the equivalent of a FOIA request with Russia and Sukhoi. Without the documentation the best I could expect to see would be a mod. I prefer to deal with older aircraft due to the issue of documention

Yea I have no idea if it would ever actually be possible, I figure no harm in asking, for the same reason we have the KA-50 and Sukhoi potentially being open to it.

 

my favorite Su-27m video

 

 

[upyr1]

19 hours ago, F-2 said:

Yea I have no idea if it would ever actually be possible, I figure no harm in asking, for the same reason we have the KA-50 and Sukhoi potentially being open to it.

 

my favorite Su-27m video

 

 

No harm in asking. The worst ED will say is no. In that case the question is whether or not you would be fine with a Franken plane-mod?

[Silver_Dragon]

If ED has already confirmed a Mig-29A, it would be only a matter of time before ED makes us a Su-27P module. In itself, a FrankenM is not necessary. And we could say that others like a Su-25A FF will come later.

[F-2]

1 hour ago, Silver_Dragon said:

If ED has already confirmed a Mig-29A, it would be only a matter of time before ED makes us a Su-27P module. In itself, a FrankenM is not necessary. And we could say that others like a Su-25A FF will come later.

Different rolls, air superiority vs multirole. 

[upyr1]

2 hours ago, Silver_Dragon said:

If ED has already confirmed a Mig-29A, it would be only a matter of time before ED makes us a Su-27P module. In itself, a FrankenM is not necessary. And we could say that others like a Su-25A FF will come later.

The question was about the Su-27M opposed to just whatever Dlanker might be possible.