fixed Mistake in the armament panel

[zerO_crash]

There is a rather important mistake in the armament panel of the Mi-24P.

 

With regards to the guided missiles, you are differentiating between Ataka and Shturm. That is wrong, and it brings further confusion to the forums, as well as improper denomination. Shturm (9K114), is the whole complex carried on the Mi-24P that allows firing of either the older Kokon (9M114), or the newer Ataka (9M120) missiles. The name of "Shturm" should be changed to "Kokon", in order to be correct. Just noticed this while looking at it in VR.

 

zerO

Edited January 27, 2024 by zerO_crash

[Flappie]

Thanks for the heads up. Issue reported.

[zerO_crash]

Much appreciated, brother

[AeriaGloria]

Additionally, there are manuals that will explicitly call it’s a “Shturm” missile and an “Ataka” missile. I won’t post here, but you can see it in 1987 Mi-24V manuals that Ataka first appears in. 
 

While Shturm is also the name of the complex including guidance, I think there is some grey area as the Ataka was developed and added, where Shturm was used to refer to the older missile without sayin “Kokon” and Ataka only meant the newer missile, while not referring to anything non missile as “Shturm.” So while “Kokon” is technically correct, I think after a certain point people in the military, including those writing the manuals, used Kokon and Shturm interchangeably 

[zerO_crash]

That's really where the local language evolved from. In order to simplify talk among each other, instructors, technicians and mechanics would refer to the sustem as a whole, when talking across each other. This is common of such closed groups. 
 

Indeed, in daily talk, "Shturm" refered to the "Shturm with Kokon", while "Ataka" was used for "Shturm with Ataka-V". The fact that manuals are propelling this understanding further, is just a byproduct of what was common talk back then.

 

Having it sorted out though, will certainly make pilots more aware of what they are actually launching. 

[AeriaGloria]

2 minutes ago, zerO_crash said:

That's really where the local language evolved from. In order to simplify talk among each other, instructors, technicians and mechanics would refer to the sustem as a whole, when talking across each other. This is common of such closed groups. 
 

Indeed, in daily talk, "Shturm" refered to the "Shturm with Kokon", while "Ataka" was used for "Shturm with Ataka-V". The fact that manuals are propelling this understanding further, is just a byproduct of what was common talk back then.

 

Having it sorted out though, will certainly make pilots more aware of what they are actually launching. 

Sure, even KBM made this advertisement in a 1993 magazine describing Shturm vs Ataka flight times while Ataka was being developed. Here, Ataka is identified as Shturm variant 1. There are many such discrepancies you can see in the relevant section of the tankograd blog post on Soviet ATGMs 

https://thesovietarmourblog.blogspot.com/2021/07/soviet-atgms.html?m=1#kokon

It’s just interesting

[zerO_crash]

30 minutes ago, AeriaGloria said:

Sure, even KBM made this advertisement in a 1993 magazine describing Shturm vs Ataka flight times while Ataka was being developed. Here, Ataka is identified as Shturm variant 1. There are many such discrepancies you can see in the relevant section of the tankograd blog post on Soviet ATGMs 

https://thesovietarmourblog.blogspot.com/2021/07/soviet-atgms.html?m=1#kokon

It’s just interesting

Absolutely

 

Come to think of it, this was a common intelligence practice of those times, and even nowadays, to operate with different indexes for the same project, so as to confuse any unwated reader. Especially the data sheet you posted there, definitely something they wouldn't want to give away a GRAU-index for. The information on some of these systems is really scarce, even nowadays. Adding another layer of naming, can quickly add to the confusion. It's a particularly interesting topic, especially with what's happened with availability of Russian documents since 2022 and the inhibiting laws. Consider how many iterations of Mi-24 exist, yet how few manuals are publicly available.

Edited January 28, 2024 by zerO_crash

[Flappie]

Issue fixed in today's update. The missile is now called "Kokon".

[kotor633]

vor 43 Minuten schrieb Flappie:

Issue fixed in today's update. The missile is now called "Kokon".

There's nothing about this in the current changelog...

[Flappie]

3 minutes ago, kotor633 said:

There's nothing about this in the current changelog...

For a time, I tried my best to help ED tidy up their public changelog, but it seems I spent a lot of energy for no result. So I gave up.

[kotor633]

vor einer Stunde schrieb Flappie:

So I gave up.

That was probably a mistake...Then ED would have at least had someone who would have kept an eye on it. Then there were some updates for the Mi-24 today...? I was a bit disappointed when I didn't see anything in the changelog.

[Flappie]

2 hours ago, kotor633 said:

That was probably a mistake...

You do know I do all this on my free time, right?

[BIGNEWY]

Folks give flappie a break I will ask the team why it wasnt in the change log