Really bad frame glitches 5-7FPS with vsync, *finally found the issue* extended display/multyscreen and any form of vsync

[silverdevil]

43 minutes ago, LHP said:

One thing I have noticed is that the drops seem to be associated with the yellow line in the performance monitor, what does that line represent? I couldn't find any notes on it anywhere 

"yellow line in the performance monitor" do you mean in DCS? or windows perfmon? DCS it means GPU present frame time. (i think)

 

Edited February 22 by silverdevil

[LHP]

Sorry, yes I ment the one in DCS, according to the link it's the "present" one, what is that for what does that even mean haha??

[LHP]

16 hours ago, silverdevil said:

i see you have malwarebytes. sometimes malwarebytes can be a little firm. it is in its nature to be firm. better safe than sorry. i suspect is is trying to create a cookie like for language.

malwarebytes may be affecting DCS too. some people report false positive results from the security software.

 

So your sure it's safe?

Cause I'm now at the point where I don't know what to do next,

 

On top of everything I did on my lunch brake, since I've got home I've...

Deleted saved games folder let it re build

Removed armory crate 

Removed any program I could see that I didn't need just incase

Let every program I use with dcs through malwarebytes 

Updated every driver I could find on the mobo website

Ran memtest 86

Even reset my bios to the last version i had

I've tried everything with no improvement at all.

 

Here's what I know

It's worse in MT

It's worse with vsync on

It happens regardless of what extra programs are running or not running.

 

I think at this stage if that program is safe I'll ignore the warning and give it a look

 

Cause I'm lost. I just don't get it

As bignewy said, I think at this stage the best corse of action is to wait for the next update and see what happens.

 

Edited February 22 by LHP

[silverdevil]

3 hours ago, LHP said:

So your sure it's safe?

unless the remotely outside chance that you have a rouge version of DCS, yes it is safe. there are literally thousands of DCS users that do not have problems.

 

3 hours ago, LHP said:

As bignewy said, I think at this stage the best corse of action is to wait for the next update and see what happens.

the update is supposed to drop today (FEB 22, 2024) after a slight delay. so i think your plan is sound.

3 hours ago, LHP said:

So your sure it's safe?

unless the remotely outside chance that you have a rouge version of DCS, yes it is safe. there are literally thousands of DCS users that do not have problems.

 

3 hours ago, LHP said:

As bignewy said, I think at this stage the best corse of action is to wait for the next update and see what happens.

the update is supposed to drop today (FEB 22, 2024) after a slight delay. so i think your plan is sound.

 

8 hours ago, LHP said:

Sorry, yes I ment the one in DCS, according to the link it's the "present" one, what is that for what does that even mean haha??

 

[LHP]

Downloaded the log tool, everything was fine with it, looks like you were right about malwarebytes 

I have not updated to the new version just yet, I kind have developed a bit of a fixation on this glitch

I have decided to wipe the pc, reinstall windows and rebuild the whole lot, pc is due a refresh anyway,

 

However I did some more testing tonight, just incase I caught it, 

The log had no errors on it that lined up with the glitches 

It's not dsr factors, turned that off and on, nothing 

It's not the extended screen settings, tried it tall, wide and nothing ---- note now think this is the issue, I only dropped the resolution when I tested it without the extension on, I didn't change the screen mode thing-----

Updated Nvidia again, nothing

I'll format the pc tomorrow, install the new version and cross my fingers 

Edited February 26 by LHP
Updated information around the extension testing

[silverdevil]

2 hours ago, LHP said:

Downloaded the log tool, everything was fine with it, looks like you were right about malwarebytes 

I have not updated to the new version just yet, I kind have developed a bit of a fixation on this glitch

I have decided to wipe the pc, reinstall windows and rebuild the whole lot, pc is due a refresh anyway,

 

However I did some more testing tonight, just incase I caught it, 

The log had no errors on it that lined up with the glitches 

It's not dsr factors, turned that off and on, nothing 

It's not the extended screen settings, tried it tall, wide and without any and nothing,

Updated Nvidia again, nothing

I'll format the pc tomorrow, install the new version and cross my fingers 

sorry if i missed this detail. have you added exclusions to malwarebytes for the various DCS and DCS connected folders?

 

[LHP]

Yes I allowed everything that can do anything with dcs, 

Today I finished going through the list bignewy sent through the other day None of those did anything to help, including turning off hyper threading in the bios i also tried re arranging the extended displays between over under and side by side, none of that made any difference, although I did notice that with hyper threading off I actually got worse performance while not using vsync.

I also noticed that changing between technicolor 3 and no filter caused a string of drops

However when I wasn't running the extended screens and just ran dcs on a single screen the issue dropped all the way off, so I wonder it that has something to do with it?

I also had a comment on a video on the problem to do a ufo check to look for a display dropping frames issue, that had no issues at all

At this stage I have ran out of options

My last little thought is that it could be that the dcs install is currently on a different m.2 than the OS is, so I think I'll wipe the PC, reinstall win 11 and make sure the new version of DCS goes on the same drive 

Other than that I'm out of ideas

 

Fingers crossed the new unified version reinstall does the trick

I just don't get it, none of my other games or programs have any issues at all

It's a real pain because I would have loved to figure out what the trouble was, you now, just the thrill of the hunt and getting the kill but oh well

 

Thanks to everyone who was gave there time to offer help and suggestions for the trouble shooting really appreciate all of it

Edited February 23 by LHP

[LHP]

I FOUND IT, I FOUND THE PROBLEM

It's something to do with the dcs extended screen settings.

Since the last post I made I have completely formatted my PC and rebuilt windows.

I have reinstalled DCS from the bran new unified installer, helios is not installed, simshaker is not installed, track ir is but not running, I have win 11 pro installed and OBS installed, (ofcorese all the latest drivers and latest versions of all my controllers etc etc etc)

I simply installed DCS, Installed my modules and went to testing 

I set up a basic mid to highish graphics setting and re did my tests.

When using the normal display setup (1 screen) and vsync, (left side of the screen) there were no issues, minor little wobbles but nothing like...

When using the extended display the glitches returned (right side of screen)

This was repeatable, I did several tests of it before I booted OBS and recorded the footage 

A couple of notes,

1) the glitch happens on the menu screen when at idol (with extended but not when not extended) I just forgot to grab footage of it

2) the second video the glitches on the right side get substantially worse the longer the video goes, skip forward to about half way through the second screens if your in a hurry 

3) I didn't bother testing single thread mode because MT has allways been worse.

4) this was repeatable for 2 hours of testing 

Anyway here's the video, left is non extended right is extended

 

So at this stage either this is it or my ridiculously over powered computer that I built around DCS is not able to handle DCS hahaha 

 

@BIGNEWY @silverdevil what do you guys reckon? I'm terribly sorry for all the time of yours that I have taken up, but I would love to hear your thoughts

And of corse, thanks again

Edited February 26 by LHP

[BIGNEWY]

thanks for sharing and glad you found the cause. 

Wondering if with the extended screens there is a bottleneck somewhere? obviously with extending screens you are pushing more pixels. 

Often we see spike or glitches if there are bad exports scripts being used also. 

 

[LHP]

Sorry for the late reply, I did some testing around the "bad export scripts" I deleted the export script I was using, and made up a generic one, that had no improvement, I then installed helios and used the one it generated, no improvement and I then installed all the script port things that helios uses to export the data to its displays and there was no change to the glitches, so it doesn't look like it was due to bad export scripts, or I misunderstood what you ment by export scrips, 

 

Can you think of anything else I could test?

[LHP]

I just needed to know that for sure it wasn't my machine, so I spent all day benchmarking in 3dmark and then jumped into DCS and wound everything up to max and then made this video, vsync is being provided by Nvidia control panel in this video and I have it set to one screen

It's definitely the extended screen settings 

 

[silverdevil]

On 3/2/2024 at 1:31 AM, LHP said:

vsync is being provided by Nvidia control panel

in NCP make VSYNC application controlled and in DCS select VSYNC.

null

[LHP]

It makes no difference, 2 posts ago all the vsync testing was done with the internal dcs vsync, i was just trying the Nvidia one to see If it made any difference, the dcs vsync is much worse, but it's an extended screen/export issue as far as incan tell, the comparison video 2 posts up was made with the internal vsync with the only difference being the screen extension settings, but i will give it another shot just incase I missed something

[LHP]

OK further testing, I noticed that after installing my exports the glitch came back, across both versions but worse on MT I continued to trouble shoot and it looks like toggling core 0 has helped, I have posted a video on another thread showing my results

 

 

Here is the video

i wonder if what causes ghe glitch is a certian level of cpu usage? Perhaps it didnt make it there whit out the exports, but with them now on regardless of screen extension it has reached that limit, or maybe it's trying to render it regardless?

 

[sascha-sphw]

Am 21.2.2024 um 07:52 schrieb LHP:

the issue has now started happening on the non-MT version too, I have no idea whats is going on, I'll grab that software and take a look, I'm lost now

 

went to grab it and I got this

Website blocked due to suspicious content

Website Blocked: swregistry.softpagehomeware.de

v2.6.22 | Heuristics: suspicious content

Malwarebytes Browser Guard blocked this page because it may contain malicious activity.

 

Hi, I am the author of this tool. I am very happy you like it! The page itself is communicating with my software registry, which is the web service (swregistry.softpagehomeware.de) to host and provide all the versions of my tools. The page and the LogViewer are connected to this service to check the latest version. You can check yourself https://swregistry.softpagehomeware.de/software/ddf23761-cad9-48fa-b078-486d247319e8/versions/latest?extend=true.

I wonder what suspicious content this malvwarebytes is recognizing but I guess it is the links to the installers on the page. If you are not sure, please always check the signature on the file, especially when you download it from somewhere else. It needs to be signed by me (Sascha Thiel) otherwise it has been changed by others.

Am 17.2.2024 um 19:26 schrieb silverdevil:

it is a German company so you may be presented with German language. Zeit, Deutsch zu lernen

There is BWT a language selector on the most top right of the page. Einfach auf Englisch (EN) wechseln! 

[silverdevil]

1 hour ago, sascha-sphw said:

There is BWT a language selector on the most top right of the page. Einfach auf Englisch (EN) wechseln! 

vielen Dank für deine Unterstützung!

[Hiob]

I just read the whole thread - very interesting.

I wonder if V-sync does work properly with multiple screens? Maybe it is neither V-sync nor Multi-screen on its own but the combination that causes the hickups?

I can kind of imagine, that V-sync would have problems when multiple screens are running - but that is speculative of course.

I am (usually) not affected by the various random problems that pop up with DCS performance (knock on wood) - but I happen to run a very basic (in a way) system. Just a single logical and physical screen, no MFD-exports, in fact no export scripts at all.... and so on.

Edited March 22 by Hiob

[jacobs]

Have you tried to disable VSYNC in DCS, and on nvidia control panel, put vsync to 'fast'? This gives me the best performance without screen tearing.

[LHP]

Best results for me was to disable vsync everywhere and just use the frame limiter in dcs, that and several other things like, using process lasso to control cores and other tweaks that can be found here

Or here

both are good threads with helpfull fixes, for me personally ive gone as far as i can with changes, ive got solid 60fps using the all vsync off and frame limiter to 60 and I'm using PL to force dcs onto Mt PCores, which seems to be working still the odd stutter or bad frames but that's dcs at the moment I'm not pushing my machine at all to run the game lol 16-23% cpu and less than half my vram basically all the time and less than half my ram yet still issues pop up but for the most part I'm OK with it, ive gon as far as I can, so I'm now in the sit and wait for a fix camp