SU-25T Launch Authorized for KH-29T not showing until later on

[ralfidude]

Hello, Ralfidude here!

I am in the process of making my new Zero to Hero Tutorial series episode on the SU-25T using the TV guided munitions and I am having some issues with the KH-29T.

The KAB-500KR works exactly as advertised and there are no problems. 

However, the KH-29T is giving me some problems. 

When I lock a target up with the Shkval and get in range as per the Arrow on the left side of the HUD, I get no Launch Authorized. It is not until I get almost half way down the range scale at around 8km that I finally do get the LA and can fire the missile normally. This missile is advertised as a 12km missile so it has me a bit confused. 

The first picture shows me clearly in range but no LA:

nullThe second picture shows me finally getting the LA once I'm almost half way down the range scale:

nullSo I guess I'm just very confused about why I can't seem to get LA when I'm clearly in range as per the HUDs indications. Is it that I should use Launch override in order to achieve the listed 12km range as per the manual? Does it have to do with energy by me having to be faster and higher to achieve it? I'd really like to get this right for the tutorial, so I appreciate any insight to this problem. Thank you very much in advance for any help regarding this.

 

Edited February 27 by ralfidude

[Skuva]

Both the TV bomb and missile got significantly nerfed in some of the last year updates. the lock range got almost halved and they lost the ability to track any moving target.

I don't know if this is intentional to match irl specs, or if it is an overcorrection, or a bug, or just a mid-stage change of their saga to revamp some of the soviet/russian weaponry that is being made in parallel with the MiG-29 development. To this point I found no info from ED apart from some vague announcements of changes to these weapons.

I'm inclined to think something is wrong. Given the Max Range indicator is very overestimating even on ideal conditions, and not so long ago the the 25T's missiles were behaving very weird lofting downward, or lofting into the aircraft and exploding right after launch damaging or killing the player. There is either a lot of changes going on behind the curtains that are causing these issues, or maybe negligence.

 

EDIT: Upon doing some tests I could confirm the game takes absolutely no variable other than sun position in the range formula. And the best range I can get is at peak summer at noon, getting LA at 9.5km, and stay above 9km from 08:00 to 17:00, outside this time window it starts to drasticaly lose range until it goes under minimum range. On winter the max range seems about the same but the time window is much smaller, and it creates some silly situations in which you can't get LA even if there is still daylight and the target is a huge black dot on a white snow field.

This all applies to the Kab-500kr too. And none of them will track if you force a launch even slightest further than LA range.

The export catalog claims the range should be up to 12km, not sure if it consider sensor capabilities or kinetics.

Edited February 27 by Skuva

[ralfidude]

Roger, thank you for taking a look into this. So it sounds like a feature that's turning into a bug of sorts then? Or at least a feature that might be taking it a bit too far.

I know that the manual very clearly states that this is a weapon system to be used in visible light only, so no night time stuff unless you have some artificial lighting present. 

Either way I'm going to wait a minute to see if there are any other responses, other than that I'll proceed with the tutorial with this in mind. Thank you.

Edited February 28 by ralfidude

[Ironhand]

It's max range is 10-12 km which doesn't mean that its range is always 10-12 km. The range will depend on altitude and other factors. About 9.5 here I had just launched the first and was about to launch the second.

[Skuva]

2 hours ago, Ironhand said:

It's max range is 10-12 km which doesn't mean that its range is always 10-12 km. The range will depend on altitude and other factors. About 9.5 here I had just launched the first and was about to launch the second.

I would assume the marketed values are for ideal conditions and probably max altitude (5km). But still it is impossible to get 10-12km in-game, doesn't matter the mission setup and approach. Weird enough I tried from 5km, I got a flashing LA at around 12km, which means you need to point towards the target to get a proper fixed LA, but as soon as I pitch down and get within the sensor gimbal limit (~20°) the LA disappears and only comes back at around 9.5km again.

Edited February 28 by Skuva

[Ironhand]

What I noticed, when I took a second look at the flight, was that KC never chanced to AC indicating a target lock. I just suddenly had launch authorization. 

[Ironhand]

Spent a bit more time this morning and finally got the target lock designation (AC) but not until after I had already received permission and launched the missile which is the reverse of how things should work. 

[ralfidude]

On 2/28/2024 at 4:39 PM, Ironhand said:

What I noticed, when I took a second look at the flight, was that KC never chanced to AC indicating a target lock. I just suddenly had launch authorization. 

The AC indicates a lock from the shkval which isn't necessary for the TV guided munitions, the Shkval lock will happer roughly around 7.3km. It has nothing to do with the LA so far. 

 

 

As far as the range of LA, it seems to really be mainly impacted by light based on time of day. I experimented with different times, in the morning around 6-7am you get around 6km range, while at noon you get a bit over 9km range, then by evening it's back down to 6km or less. I also experimented with clouds to see if complete cloud coverage does anything and it did not affect the range at which LA would occur. So far, I still can't get 12KM range even when I'm fastest and highest with no clouds and 12-1pm sun setting in the summer. Oh well, at least we can narrow it down to lighting giving you the best range. Thank you Skuva for noticing that!

Edited March 1 by ralfidude

[Ironhand]

I think I should probably stop participating in discussions. I’m more often wrong than right these days it seems.

[Fighterinterceptor]

On 2/27/2024 at 3:52 PM, Skuva said:

 

In this picture, the maximum height from which the KH-29T can be launched is 5 km! The problem is that when we look at the data of export products, as is well known, the export products are always WEAKER compared to the original Russian products! Maybe that's why the range of the R-27ER and R-33 was reduced in DCS World because they were made from export documents!

Here is an original KH 29T description! 10 km maximum height from which the rocket can be launched!

 

On 2/28/2024 at 8:49 PM, Skuva said:

I would assume the marketed values are for ideal conditions and probably max altitude (5km). But still it is impossible to get 10-12km in-game, doesn't matter the mission setup and approach. Weird enough I tried from 5km, I got a flashing LA at around 12km, which means you need to point towards the target to get a proper fixed LA, but as soon as I pitch down and get within the sensor gimbal limit (~20°) the LA disappears and only comes back at around 9.5km again.

 

Высота пуска, км 0,2-10
Дальность стрельбы, км 3-12

Launch altitude, km 0.2-10
Firing range, km 3-12

[draconus]

On 3/2/2024 at 12:49 PM, Ironhand said:

I think I should probably stop participating in discussions. I’m more often wrong than right these days it seems.

You never know how valuable your input was until you hear the feedback. Don't worry

[cerebrave]

I think it got nerfed (or other may say realistic adjustment).  I played the frogfoot a lot in the past where I remember I can launch at max range carrot, and recently I got bit confused with the now limited LA range of 29T.  The rook seems now losing it's long range TV guided standoff fire-and-forget solution.