too heavy Cant get low approach speed on the f-16

[diacidos]

Hello, I have flew falcon bms a lot and i am getting into dcs. I have the f-16 and whenever I am landing, I just cant keep the speed on the 160-170kts range. It is only in the 180-190. 

Am I the only one? Or am I just bad at this?

 

Edited March 1, 2024 by BIGNEWY
1.15

[BIGNEWY]

attach a short track replay example and the community will give you some tips and feedback.

 

[AngryViper.101]

36 minutes ago, diacidos said:

Hello, I have flew falcon bms a lot and i am getting into dcs. I have the f-16 and whenever I am landing, I just cant keep the speed on the 160-170kts range. It is only in the 180-190. 

Am I the only one? Or am I just bad at this?

 

 

That is interesting, on longer runways I manage to land smoothly at just under 200kts, but on touchdown immediately further extend the speedbrakes, lift the nose for some aerodynamic slowdown until just under 100kts and then start applying wheel brakes.

not perfect and as I mentioned works on long enough runways, but on shorter runways you want to touchdown 180 or less.

remember, when gear is down, the speed brake does not fully extend, but if you hold down the speed brake extend key then it will fully extend.
this is to prevent the speed brakes scraping the runway on touch down, but you can force it to extend fully until just prior to touch down, by keeping the extend key pressed, this helps a bit in slowing down the aircraft, then after touchdown you can again force a full extend.

Edited March 1, 2024 by AngryViper.101

[razo+r]

9 minutes ago, AngryViper.101 said:

That is interesting, on longer runways I managed to land smoothly at just under 200kts, but on touchdown immediately further extend the speedbrakes, lift the nose for some aerodynamic slowdown until just under 100kts and then start applying wheel brakes.

not perfect and as I mentioned works on long enough runways, but on shorter runways you want to touchdown 180 or less

Unless you are very, very heavy, 200kts is just way too fast. 

Also, don't fly a speed, fly the AoA. After all, you want to touch down as slow and safe as possible.

[AngryViper.101]

18 minutes ago, razo+r said:

Unless you are very, very heavy, 200kts is just way too fast. 

Also, don't fly a speed, fly the AoA. After all, you want to touch down as slow and safe as possible.

100%, I always keep an eye on the AOA at 11 degrees, forgot to mention that important part of the landing

[Dragon1-1]

Depends on your fuel, stores and weather. I don't know which block was your ride before, but the 50 is rather heavy for a Viper. Also, Korea is a rather cool and temperate climate, while in DCS, most maps are on the hot side. That affects air density, which can have a noticeable impact on which speed corresponds to which AoA.

[macedk]

F-16 is just a fast bird. The cleaner bird,  the more "on top" of the speed you need to be. 

1. Classic "chase the landing", you at 20.000 feet 10 miles out and dive for the runway, you jink and jive and it is a complete mess.  

2. Practice the overhead break, it is a great way to get things under control and the concept is the same for all fixed wing aircraft in DCS. 

3. Straight in/ ILS: Here you have to setup early and give yourself time to get in the "slot".  If terrain permits, I'll be 2000 feet above runway at 10-20 miles and slower than 300 knots.  

Made a small video for you. It shows the last bit of a overhead break, it is not perfect but speed is under control. 
 

 

[diacidos]

4 hours ago, macedk said:

F-16 is just a fast bird. The cleaner bird,  the more "on top" of the speed you need to be. 

1. Classic "chase the landing", you at 20.000 feet 10 miles out and dive for the runway, you jink and jive and it is a complete mess.  

2. Practice the overhead break, it is a great way to get things under control and the concept is the same for all fixed wing aircraft in DCS. 

3. Straight in/ ILS: Here you have to setup early and give yourself time to get in the "slot".  If terrain permits, I'll be 2000 feet above runway at 10-20 miles and slower than 300 knots.  

Made a small video for you. It shows the last bit of a overhead break, it is not perfect but speed is under control. 
 

 

Thank you, I can fly circuits no problem, i already have a lot of hours coming from bms, just find weird that the speed is really hard to get down. I flew in real simulators and i could get the speed just right for the config, but maybe that´s just how it works! Thank you very much mate

8 hours ago, Dragon1-1 said:

Depends on your fuel, stores and weather. I don't know which block was your ride before, but the 50 is rather heavy for a Viper. Also, Korea is a rather cool and temperate climate, while in DCS, most maps are on the hot side. That affects air density, which can have a noticeable impact on which speed corresponds to which AoA.

Maybe that could be it! Nice guess thank you

8 hours ago, AngryViper.101 said:

100%, I always keep an eye on the AOA at 11 degrees, forgot to mention that important part of the landing

Yup I keep it too, 3 degree marking and 11 AOA. But I just find it too fast

9 hours ago, AngryViper.101 said:

That is interesting, on longer runways I manage to land smoothly at just under 200kts, but on touchdown immediately further extend the speedbrakes, lift the nose for some aerodynamic slowdown until just under 100kts and then start applying wheel brakes.

not perfect and as I mentioned works on long enough runways, but on shorter runways you want to touchdown 180 or less.

remember, when gear is down, the speed brake does not fully extend, but if you hold down the speed brake extend key then it will fully extend.
this is to prevent the speed brakes scraping the runway on touch down, but you can force it to extend fully until just prior to touch down, by keeping the extend key pressed, this helps a bit in slowing down the aircraft, then after touchdown you can again force a full extend.

 

I think 200 is too much, maybe depending on config it can be a usable speed. I always keep the brakes open, not fully but i would say mid position, just like i see in real life videos

[Lace]

There is no 'landing speed' for the Viper, it is all AoA.  If you are coming back heavy you could be 180KIAS+ over the fence, if you cleaned off the jet and are running on fumes it will be around 140.  Also density altitude makes a difference as stated above, so another reason not to fixate on the speed, and just look at the indexer.

[Arktos]

I was under the impression that we are supposed to land with the speedbrakes deployed? Also, I got much better at on-AoA on-glideslope landings when I forced myself to practice overhead breaks for a while. Now it's just normal to break and pull g's until you are on-AoA and glideslope... it made it surprisingly automatic for me, at least. 

[Dragon1-1]

Yes, you land with the boards out to be higher on the power curve. With gear down, they'll automatically retract a little so you don't scrape them on the runway. Overhead break is a good idea, which is why pilots use it when possible. It really helps getting the alpha under control.