Rudder always totally to the left.

[FirstDawn]

When I start up the Apache, and I unlock tail wheel, the chopper immediately starts spinning to the left.

I have to constantly pull full right rudder to counter this. This is not supposed to be right I hope.

From the moment I release pulling the rudder to the right, I goes back totally to the left.

I have a stick with a twist grip. In Axis commands this is bound with JOY_RZ.

The option Rudder in Flight Controls, there I have nothing bound to it.

Can someone tell me what I'm doing wrong? Thanks!

[Nevyn]

That's what it does, trim it out.

[Floyd1212]

Welcome to the forums.

It shouldn't take much right pedal to counter the torque of the main rotor after unlocking the tail wheel, but it does take a little.  If you leave the rudder axis at 50%, you will get some left yaw as there is still some pitch on the tail rotor blades at 50%.

What trim option are you using for your pedals (twist stick)?  Any curves on that axis?  No other devices bound to that same axis?  Is your twist stick showing up as a single axis that rests at 50%?

When you pull up the Controls Indicator [RCTRL+ENTER] and you aren't touching your twist stick, are you saying that the rudder axis is pegged all the way to the left?

A track file, video, or even screenshots can go a long way to help us troubleshoot your issue.

[FirstDawn]

Desktop Screenshot 2024.04.07 - 21.47.25.59.jxr Desktop Screenshot 2024.04.07 - 21.47.49.24.jxr

I can't upload a video (file to big)

Here 2 pictures how my rudder is tuned and bound.

The third picture, you can see in the upper left corner that my rudder puls totally to the left. I can only counter it by applying constantly full rudder to the right.

I don't know why the third picture is in another format.

I hope you can open the pictures.

I already much appreciate your help!

[NeedzWD40]

Double check your axis bindings and make absolutely sure no other device is bound to the pedals.

[SharpeXB]

Have you calibrated that controller axis in Windows? 

[Floyd1212]

Yeah, like SharpeXB said, re-calibrate that axis in Windows.

[Schmafuzius]

Hmmm.. please let me know if you find out the reason..

I am struggling with the AH-64 aswell... as soon as I get up to  ~95% rpm it starts moving and I have a really hard time trimming it out..

I keep crashing the AH-64D like 9 out of 10 attempts during take-off.. maybe I am just to stupid for helicopters...

 I am using the TM TFRP at the moment, I already considered switching to other rudder pedals (maybe the new WinWing??) but I dont think that that will help with my obvious lack of skills 

Edited April 18, 2024 by Schmafuzius

[razo+r]

8 minutes ago, Schmafuzius said:

Hmmm.. please let me know if you find out the reason..

I am struggling with the AH-64 aswell... as soon as I get up to  ~95% it starts moving and I have a really hard time trimming it out..

I keep crashing the AH-64D like 9 out of 10 attempts during take-off.. maybe I am just to stupid for helicopters...

 I am using the TM TFRP at the moment, I already considered switching to other rudder pedals (maybe the new WinWing??) but I dont think that that will help with my obvious lack of skills 

First of all, consider taking less weight with you. The lighter your heli, the more reserve you have, unlike at 95% where you are almost at max... 

Then, make sure your axis assignments are set up correctly and no double bindings. Also make sure the axis curves, if needed, are reasonable. 

And if still all fails, feel free to upload a short track so we can give you exact inputs and not just random, general guessing. 

[Schmafuzius]

32 minutes ago, razo+r said:

First of all, consider taking less weight with you. The lighter your heli, the more reserve you have, unlike at 95% where you are almost at max... 

Then, make sure your axis assignments are set up correctly and no double bindings. Also make sure the axis curves, if needed, are reasonable. 

And if still all fails, feel free to upload a short track so we can give you exact inputs and not just random, general guessing. 

Thx for your reply.. I will upload a trackfile maybe i really do something wrong..

Regarding the 95% I  forgot to put the "rpm" there.. So when I start up after both engines are running I am supposed to increase rpm to 100% (or even 101%) with no collective but then the helicopter already moves a LOT

I never really had a look on my actual weight I was just doing Instant Action - cold start on a random map.. not sure how big the loadout is there....

 

EDIT: I checked the bindings already but maybe I missed something - will check again.. thanks

Edited April 18, 2024 by Schmafuzius

[razo+r]

7 minutes ago, Schmafuzius said:

Thx for your reply.. I will upload a trackfile maybe i really do something wrong..

Regarding the 95% I  forgot to put the "rpm" there.. So when I start up after both engines are running I am supposed to increase rpm to 100% (or even 101%) with no collective but then the helicopter already moves a LOT

I never really had a look on my actual weight I was just doing Instant Action - cold start on a random map.. not sure how big the loadout is there....

 

EDIT: I checked the bindings already but maybe I missed something - will check again.. thanks

 

The heli should not move if you increase the rotor RPM to 101%. If it does, make sure your wheel brakes are set and your collective is all the way down. 

[Schmafuzius]

1 minute ago, razo+r said:

The heli should not move if you increase the rotor RPM to 101%. If it does, make sure your wheel brakes are set and your collective is all the way down. 

thats what I thought should happen, but somehow if I would just increase rpm to 101% rpm and do nothing else the Apache will spin and tip over in a matter of seconds... it really is frustrating...

 

 

[razo+r]

Just now, Schmafuzius said:

thats what I thought should happen, but somehow if I would just increase rpm to 101% rpm and do nothing else the Apache will spin and tip over in a matter of seconds... it really is frustrating...

 

 

Have you made sure that the collective is all the way down? 

Have you also made sure the easy flight or simplified flight mode settings are turned off? 

[Floyd1212]

If you bring up the Controls Indicator on screen [RCTRL+ENTER], you can see what each axis is doing in real-time.  Sounds like maybe you are bringing up the collective with the throttle at the same time?

[Schmafuzius]

50 minutes ago, Floyd1212 said:

If you bring up the Controls Indicator on screen [RCTRL+ENTER], you can see what each axis is doing in real-time.  Sounds like maybe you are bringing up the collective with the throttle at the same time?

I will try and ScreenGrab my start up to show to you.. it's been bothering me for some time now and I always thought I might figure it out by myself but I didn't

52 minutes ago, razo+r said:

Have you made sure that the collective is all the way down? 

Have you also made sure the easy flight or simplified flight mode settings are turned off? 

I havn't checked for easy flight mode.. I will recheck all my settings the next time I fly.. 

 

Thanks so much for all your input 

[Schmafuzius]

On 4/18/2024 at 2:38 PM, Schmafuzius said:

I will try and ScreenGrab my start up to show to you.. it's been bothering me for some time now and I always thought I might figure it out by myself but I didn't

I havn't checked for easy flight mode.. I will recheck all my settings the next time I fly.. 

 

Thanks so much for all your input 

I just wanted to update my progress (although I did not start this topic but somehow hijacked it - sorry) After recalibrating everything, checking key-bindings etc and a couple hours of practice I now manage to fly the AH 64D (at least most of the time). It is not spinning anymore at 101% rpm and by now I am even able to take-off from a (semi) stable hover..

I changed the DZ and the curvature for the rudder and found a setting that now works for me - thanks for all your help..

 

[Rechs]

Here's my nitpicky contribution: the main rotor % readout you guys are referring to is actually torque, not RPM. The main rotor spins at constant RPMs and when you pull up on the collective, blade pitch/AOA changes (which increases torque and lift). 

[Schmafuzius]

On 5/7/2024 at 9:25 PM, Rechs said:

Here's my nitpicky contribution: the main rotor % readout you guys are referring to is actually torque, not RPM. The main rotor spins at constant RPMs and when you pull up on the collective, blade pitch/AOA changes (which increases torque and lift). 

I had the problem with spinning without any collective - so basically no torque but Engine Power Turbine NP% at 101% and that is RPM isn't it..?

But it is fixed now anyway.... 

[Rechs]

4 hours ago, Schmafuzius said:

I had the problem with spinning without any collective - so basically no torque but Engine Power Turbine NP% at 101% and that is RPM isn't it..?

But it is fixed now anyway.... 

NP% is Power Turbine RPM, so you are correct. I just re-read the posts above and I see you were talking about advancing the engine power levers, not the collective. My mind didn't really register it the first time as this alone should not cause the helo to spin uncontrollably. The only way I see that happening is a) applying power via collective without realizing it (like if another controller was also bound as "collective" and it was commanding torque input) or b) erroneous rudder input due to a calibration/binding/dual controller interference issue (same scenario as the collective example above). 

Glad to hear you got this fixed though, inexplicable response that goes counter to what should be happening is super frustrating.

[Raptor9]

It is worth noting that advancing the power levers to increase the rotor RPM's will cause an increase in torque in the same manner as increasing collective. Torque will always be present, even when sitting on the ground with the collective pushed all the way down. But any time the engines need to increase their output to maintain or increase rotor RPMs, the torque will also increase because the output from the engines is what is generating the torque.

One thing that I absolutely want to make clear (because I see a lot of misinformation out there), is that you should only unlock the tail wheel when ground taxiing, and then lock it again before coming to a stop. And when you do unlock it, you must position your pedals in a manner that balances out the torque-induced rotation otherwise your helicopter will start spinning on the ground due to an imbalance of torque vs anti-torque. Keeping the tail wheel locked helps prevent this, which is why unless you are ground taxiing, leave the tail wheel locked. There is zero reason to unlock it otherwise, and in real life it is never unlocked in any other situation besides actively ground taxiing.

On that note, it is also important to understand that the tail rotor does not produce zero thrust when the pedals are centered. If you push the right pedal forward so it is about 2 inches forward of the left pedal, this will effectively zero out the tail rotor thrust. Otherwise, when sitting on the ground with the collective pushed all the way down, the nose will start to spin to the left if you unlock the tail wheel any time the tail rotor's anti-torque thrust exceeds the force of the main rotor torque.

I don't know if any of these factors apply to the situations described within this thread, but they are important considerations to know.

[Rechs]

That is great info, thanks Raptor.