Issues with TrackIR placement on 55" TV's

[kksnowbear]

12 minutes ago, maverick90 said:

Here, I took a pic. The blue line represents roughly where the height of my eyes would be from Track IR's sensor.

 

Yup. As I said, monitors too high forcing the angles (especially down/sideways) to be too steep.

Everyone can say or do what they want. But the overwhelming convention is your eyes should be aligned with the  top of the monitor (maybe a tad lower).

In your picture the blue line should ideally be level with where your eyes fall, which ideally is also level in the same plane as the side-side movement when turning your head (which yes, coincidentally, will be level with the floor).  If that's not practical than as close as possible. Further from that you get, more likely you're gonna have problems.

Edited April 23 by kksnowbear

[SharpeXB]

2 minutes ago, maverick90 said:

I just did a test and it seems in the Track IR app those 3 green dots all disappear when I look left/right and downwards.

Maybe I should increase the angle when I'm looking in either of those directions so I don't have to tilt my head down so much in order to not lose sight of the green dots?

 

Yeah just dial down the sensitivity so you don’t need to turn your head so much. There are curves in the settings and a global slider as well. 

[maverick90]

This is how my Track IR settings look when I'm sitting looking directly straight at the TV.

[kksnowbear]

2 minutes ago, maverick90 said:

in the Track IR app those 3 green dots all disappear when I look left/right and downwards.

That's because the angle is too great for light to be "seen" off the camera's axis.

[SharpeXB]

Just now, maverick90 said:

This is how my Track IR settings look when I'm sitting looking directly straight at the TV.

Try the “smooth” profile instead of “default”

[SharpeXB]

24 minutes ago, kksnowbear said:

But the overwhelming convention is your eyes should be aligned with the  top of the monitor

Well that’s hardly possible with any monitor bigger than 20” The bottom of a large display would be down at your knees.  

How about try for the center of the screen at eye level. 

Edited April 23 by SharpeXB

[kksnowbear]

14 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

Well that’s hardly possible with any monitor bigger than 20” The bottom of a large display would be down at your knees.  

How about try for the center of the screen at eye level. 

 

No, the convention is exactly as I described; top of the monitor or slightly below. That's been the standard forever and it's all over online. Go check.  Even  better, cite a reputable source that agrees with your opinion.

In the OPs case having the monitor that high is jacking up the angles enough it gets goofy when he looks down and to the side.  That's because light doesn't bend - these are reflectors, and with light, the angle of incidence equals the angle of reflection. Too steep and the light doesn't get reflected back to the camera, and the rest is history.

You can try curves in the software, but it's possible that enough of a curve will be too sensitive (these are inversely proportional).

The active LEDs in a Track Clip may work since they have lenses on the LEDs.

It remains, however, that the problem is the camera's too high. And that's because of where the monitor is.

As I mentioned above, TrackIR clearly was not intended to be used with a big monitor only two feet away. (Or maybe that's why they have the active LEDs solution).

Edited April 23 by kksnowbear

[SharpeXB]

2 minutes ago, kksnowbear said:

No, the convention is exactly as I described; top of the monitor or slightly below.

Yeah but that’s only feasible with a very small screen. Not a realistic solution in this case.
The option here that doesn’t involve a home improvement project is to try adjusting the response curves. The “Default” preset that TrackIR starts with isn’t actually ideal for what we are doing with this, checking six and so forth. IMO the “Smooth” preset works better as a starting point. 

[kksnowbear]

8 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

Yeah but that’s only feasible with a very small screen. Not a realistic solution in this case.
The option here that doesn’t involve a home improvement project is to try adjusting the response curves. The “Default” preset that TrackIR starts with isn’t actually ideal for what we are doing with this, checking six and so forth. IMO the “Smooth” preset works better as a starting point. 

It wouldn't require any "project" if the monitor weren't too high.  That's a choice that was made when it was mounted, and not by me.

Adjusting the curves etc is really all just trying to overcome the fact that the camera's too high.

TrackIR works fine, even with larger monitors.  It's not accurate to say it requires a "very small screen", that's not correct.  But as with *anything* there are limits.

[LucShep]

17 hours ago, maverick90 said:

I'm not sure if I'm understanding correctly. But how would velcro fix the problem? 

Do you mean in the Track IR app where you can see the green dots? If so, then yes I believe it's already set properly but I will recheck again.

Pardon me, it was I that didn't understand correctly. 

I thought the issue was the positioning of the camera on top of the screen, that it needed readjustment (angle, etc) beyond what currently is possible "as is".
It's a hack I've used on every big screen, i.e, to force a steeper angle of the camera (towards you, as it's so much higher than usual) while keeping it secure.
But only now realizing the issue may be unrelated(?).

Are you using the Track Clip Pro LED headtracker, or just the plastic reflector thing on the hat?

I ask this because the issue that you describe seems similar to what I noticed before with a friend's TrackIR - he was using the hat reflectors (the plastic thing to put on a hat).
We realized that when the camera is placed on a bigger screen (like yours) it sits much higher than by design, and the tracking is disturbed (LEDs for tracking become a must).
@Hiob, @kksnowbear and @SharpeXB mentioned the possible issue above, I think you'll understand.
In my friend's case, we fixed it by using LEDs for tracking (DelanClip, check their website), forcing a steeper angle of the camera (towards the head of the user) and readjusting the response curves until satisfied.

Personally, I use an old PS3Eye Camera (+IR filter) with OpenTrack software, and TrackHatClip (with IR LEDs, pretty much same thing as the DelanClip) placed on headphones.
I never had an issue, and have used it with a plethora of screens (32'', 46'', 55'', 43'' and now the current 50'' screen), be it sitting close or far from the screen (50 cm to 150cm distance). Yes, it was a PITA to configure the curves untill it finally got "nice" (TrackIR seems superior in that regard) but, once the profile was set, it works a treat.

Edited April 23 by LucShep

[kksnowbear]

7 minutes ago, LucShep said:

I never had an issue with usage, and have used it with a plethora of screens (32'', 46'', 55'', 43'' and now the current 50'' screen), be it sitting close or far from the screen (50 cm to 150cm distance).

The problem with this as any sort of proof is that it's missing necessary detail.  Most significantly, it doesn't say anything about height of the monitor, nor which sized monitor at what distance.  And again, if you move away from the camera it changes the angles.

10 minutes ago, LucShep said:

forcing a steeper angle of the camera (towards the head of the user) and readjusting the response curves.

As I mentioned, of course you can adjust curves and force angles, but there are limits, and no amount of curve adjustment can overcome the fact that, with the camera on a steep vertical angle, your head doesn't turn in the same level plane as the line of sight between camera and reflectors.  At some point the light will not be reflected toward the camera any more.

[SharpeXB]

32 minutes ago, kksnowbear said:

It wouldn't require any "project" if the monitor weren't too high.  That's a choice that was made when it was mounted, and not by me.

Sure the monitor could slide down a little bit but that’s still higher than what you’re suggesting. Achieving that height would mean the desk I assume the OP likes the desk. I can’t tell from the photo if it’s adjustable. 

[LucShep]

16 minutes ago, kksnowbear said:

As I mentioned, of course you can adjust curves and force angles, but there are limits, and no amount of curve adjustment can overcome the fact that, with the camera on a steep vertical angle, your head doesn't turn in the same level plane as the line of sight between camera and reflectors.  At some point the light will not be reflected toward the camera any more.

Agreed but, from experience, it can work fine.

If you don't go by me, watch other people's videos, for instances Growling Sidewinder.
He uses a 55'' screen with TrackIR and seems to have no issues (watch him explaining at 3:31 min/sec):
 

 

Edited April 23 by LucShep

[SharpeXB]

8 minutes ago, kksnowbear said:

At some point the light will not be reflected toward the camera any more.

Then adjust the sensitivity or curve so your head doesn’t need to move so much that you lose tracking. Do you have a TrackIR or know how it works? It’s a pretty simple adjustment. 

[kksnowbear]

1 minute ago, SharpeXB said:

Sure the monitor could slide down a little bit but that’s still higher than what you’re suggesting.

What I'm suggesting is that optimal is level line of eye sight aligned with the top of the monitor.  Anything else may work but is not optimal.  And the further you go from optimal, the more likely you'll have problems because of angles.

That's what I've said, nothing more nothing less.

[SharpeXB]

Just now, LucShep said:

He uses a 55'' screen with TrackIR and he also seem to have no issues whatsoever.

Yes lots of people use bigger screens for gaming like this. The situation is not unsolvable. Buying a 22” screen isn’t the only solution either

[kksnowbear]

3 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

Then adjust the sensitivity or curve so your head doesn’t need to move so much that you lose tracking. Do you have a TrackIR or know how it works? It’s a pretty simple adjustment. 

Yes, I've owned several thanks.

As I said above, of course you can adjust the sensitivity - but at a certain point this will mean it's too sensitive; approaching unrealistic (turn head 1/4th inch, view moves all the way aft).

Moreover, and again: Only necessary because camera is too far away from vertical center (too high).

Edited April 23 by kksnowbear

[SharpeXB]

1 minute ago, kksnowbear said:

What I'm suggesting is that optimal is level line of eye sight aligned with the top of the monitor.

So your seated eye level is about 44”. A desk is 30”. That leaves 14” for your monitor. Look at the cockpit thread for all the people with bigger screens than 14” high

[MAXsenna]

That's because the angle is too great for light to be "seen" off the camera's axis.

And this can be solved by using IR LEDs instead of reflectors. Just sayin'

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[kksnowbear]

15 minutes ago, LucShep said:

He uses a 55'' screen with TrackIR and seems to have no issues whatsoever.

Admittedly I haven't watched the whole thing, but again, it's missing necessary detail: Height of the monitor top, desktop/table height, level of chair, how 'tall' this guy is in the torso, whether he's using LED array (OP is not)...

...basically, the same thing I've been saying all along: What is the angle from headset to the reflectors?

Edited April 23 by kksnowbear

[maverick90]

39 minutes ago, LucShep said:

Are you using the Track Clip Pro LED headtracker, or just the plastic reflector thing on the hat?

I am using the plastic reflector thing that attaches to the brim of a hat.

9 minutes ago, MAXsenna said:

And this can be solved by using IR LEDs instead of reflectors.

What is that?

[kksnowbear]

12 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

So your seated eye level is about 44”. A desk is 30”. That leaves 14” for your monitor. Look at the cockpit thread for all the people with bigger screens than 14” high

Where is the law that says the monitor has to be on the desktop, exactly?  Or that the desktop must be close to the wall?  Or that one must use the reflector type headset?

9 minutes ago, MAXsenna said:

And this can be solved by using IR LEDs instead of reflectors. Just sayin'

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk
 

Which I acknowledged way earlier.  That said, the OP has the issues he does because he's not using LEDs.

Edited April 23 by kksnowbear

[LucShep]

31 minutes ago, maverick90 said:

I am using the plastic reflector thing that attaches to the brim of a hat.

Then you need LEDs for tracking (the "antlers" with the IR LEDs, for the camera to pick up and track movement reliably).
At such angle and distance, it will never be fine with the hat reflectors - those are meant to be used in a small angle (almost right in front of the camera), for small(er) screens. 

DelanClip (wireless, or wired and plugged into USB) placed on headphones/headset (at right or left of your head) is the most reliable.

Or do some yourself (plenty videos on Youtube, this for example but ignore the camera and software part - the "LED antlers" work with the TrackIR camera).
Some even do them to be placed on top of a hat with a small AA battery.

Edited April 23 by LucShep

[MAXsenna]

Which I acknowledged way earlier.  That said, the OP has the issues he does because he's not using LEDs.

Guess I missed that. Thanks!

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[Slippa]

6 hours ago, MAXsenna said:

Make some antlers
 

I'm more interested in these 'antlers' you speak of . I can't go robbing a moose farm. Is there even a moose farm? nvm 

FWIW OP I have a similar issue with mine.

Edited April 23 by Slippa