investigating RWS altitude control stuck until you "bump" the scan width when coming from TWS

[TobiasA]

When returning from TWS by double-bumping TMS down, the RWS mode will have its scanning altitude (elevation) stuck until you "bumb" the scan range by moving the cursor to the side.
Returning to TWS by TMS right long will regain control over the scan altitude, bumping back to RWS will leave you unable to control elevation.
This doesn't happen always, but I have been able to reproduce it in a test mission. After shooting down the last enemy plane (mission is 4 minutes in total), the altitude control is locked to what you had when you exited TWS.
I am using an axis to control the elevation.
You can see the altitude jumping back to -99/-99 when going back to TWS and coming back to the "old" altitude range when going back to RWS. When bumping to a 60 degree scan volume, I regain control over the radar antenna elevation and I can move the elevation around again.
This has been bugging me for a while, and I finally managed to recreate it.
I hope the attached track makes it possible to see why and how it happened.
It may be the case that it happens when a lock is dropped because the target leaves the scan volume or is destroyed.

RWS_no_altitude_control.trk

[TobiasA]

I am using DTC, you need to let the mission run in realtime until the dtc upload is finished.

[skywalker22]

Normal procedure by swithing between RWS and TWS is by holding TMS right for longer then 0,5sec.

[TobiasA]

vor 1 Minute schrieb skywalker22:

Normal procedure by swithing between RWS and TWS is by holding TMS right for longer then 0,5sec.

This will change to TWS, changing to RWS is done by 2x TMS down short with no lock.

[skywalker22]

47 minutes ago, TobiasA said:

This will change to TWS, changing to RWS is done by 2x TMS down short with no lock.

Try holding TWS right when in TWS.

It will put you back into RWS.

[TobiasA]

vor 19 Minuten schrieb skywalker22:

Try holding TWS right when in TWS.

It will put you back into RWS.

That doesn't solve my problem though.

[skywalker22]

I know.

About your issue, thats an old "bug" ED still didn0't salve it.

It has been happaning to me for the last 3 or more years, occasionally here and there, like to you. I still didn't find the reason why does it happen. Its not that bothering anyway, or I got use to it, and living with it

[TobiasA]

vor 19 Minuten schrieb skywalker22:

I know.

About your issue, thats an old "bug" ED still didn0't salve it.

It has been happaning to me for the last 3 or more years, occasionally here and there, like to you. I still didn't find the reason why does it happen. Its not that bothering anyway, or I got use to it, and living with it

Now we have a track

[TobiasA]

That sounds like it was a controller issue and then got closed.

[skywalker22]

41 minutes ago, TobiasA said:

That sounds like it was a controller issue and then got closed.

Not on my side. My controllers are (still) working perfectly fine.

[TobiasA]

Finally... I managed to recreate the issue.
It happens when you switch in and out of MRM override with a lock still present (or maybe not even necessary to have a lock?)- in that case, the elevation will get stuck.
Attached is a shorter track than the original one.

RWS_no_altitude_control_short.trk

Mind that I have an axis mapped as altitude control.

Edited April 21, 2024 by TobiasA
Typo

[TobiasA]

Any comments on this issue?

[TobiasA]

Tested a bit more and there is no 100% sure way to create the issue, it just happens every now and then when you switch back to RWS, coming from TWS. In some cases, you are unable to move the altitude setting by axis.

It seems to be unrelated to the override, but it is related to going back to RWS from TWS.

[RyanR]

I've seen this several times now. Once right from the get go when my wheels left the ground.

-Ryan

[Lord Vader]

In my own tests, I was never able to make this happen, even switching between RWS/TWS or with MRM override. 

I will continue to try and catch it but so far I am a bit inclined to something related to hardware assignment. I tried both an axis and a button for the elevation, no luck so far. 

[TobiasA]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb Lord Vader:

In my own tests, I was never able to make this happen, even switching between RWS/TWS or with MRM override. 

I will continue to try and catch it but so far I am a bit inclined to something related to hardware assignment. I tried both an axis and a button for the elevation, no luck so far. 

Is there a way to display the axis position as raw value? I never touch the axis, just "bump" the scan width and it'll work again. Plus, the axis will do just fine in TWS.

[Yaga]

With a target tracked, turn to put the target outside gimbal limits, allowing the radar to drop lock. Do not TMS down to snip until after the target is outside limits.

Notice the scan angle freezes, and resets after a bit of time or needs to be manually reset by changing scan width.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

[TobiasA]

It also happens when you are in MRM / TWS, bug out with cancel override and press multiple RWS down, erasing the scope (last try in the attached track).
It won't come back on its own then.

RWS_no_altitude_control_short_2.trk

Edited May 5, 2024 by TobiasA
Typo

[TobiasA]

Am 30.4.2024 um 15:14 schrieb Lord Vader:

In my own tests, I was never able to make this happen, even switching between RWS/TWS or with MRM override. 

I will continue to try and catch it but so far I am a bit inclined to something related to hardware assignment. I tried both an axis and a button for the elevation, no luck so far. 

I got it in the second try this time. MRM in TWS, cancel override, TMS down a few times and it got stuck.
It never seems to happen in the first try. Then, it only seems to happen when you have the cursor over the target, and only after leaving a lock in RWS.
As Yaga mentioned, it might also happen when losing a lock, which is hard to recreate (other than moving the target out of the gimbal area).

RWS_no_altitude_control_short_3.trk

[Kid18120]

On 4/30/2024 at 3:14 PM, Lord Vader said:

In my own tests, I was never able to make this happen, even switching between RWS/TWS or with MRM override. 

I will continue to try and catch it but so far I am a bit inclined to something related to hardware assignment. I tried both an axis and a button for the elevation, no luck so far. 

It's still happening every now and then. 
I doubt it's controller/hardware related as it happens randomly. It seems to be a bit more frequent if you are in TWS with a bugged target, then TMS RIGHT to start tracking it and somehow you lose the radar contant. After that point the antenna elevation stops responding until one of the workarounds is done

[BIGNEWY]

I also tried to reproduce this morning and was unable, its a strange one for sure if the controller is ok. 

 

[TobiasA]

vor 5 Stunden schrieb BIGNEWY:

I also tried to reproduce this morning and was unable, its a strange one for sure if the controller is ok. 

 

It is, but it should be visible in the tracks.

Is the axis input recorded in the track?

[TobiasA]

Probably worth noting that it happened more frequently around the 20nm mark.

[_UnknownCheater_]

same issue.RADAR ANT STUCKED.Need switch mode to active controls.When it stucked,go to settings test my axis working.

Edited May 16, 2024 by _UnknownCheater_

[_UnknownCheater_]

and not f16,f18 has the same issues.when ant stucked,all throttle's control not work,after Radar mode switched,then back to work