Any interesting or challenging flight dynamics?

[Whirley]

I enjoy the Huey, Hind, Hip and Apache we got for their "quirks and challenges" in flight dynamics.

I believe the Chinook flies pretty fast, flies well sideways and backwards. But I guess there is no weather cock effect with wind from the side in a hover, no challenge with pedal input in general.

I somewhat fear with the automated control system adding to the tandem design it might be super stable, maybe more stable than the Ka-50.

Does anybody know any interesting or challenging flight dynamics to expect from the Chinook?

Edited May 3, 2024 by Whirley

[Rogue Trooper]

Yeah, I need to go through the previous posts that Chinook pilots posted.

The collective is thrust and the forward cyclic movement is collective.... Huhh?.... I need to re-read it, Surely I got that wrong as I was too quick scanning through the posts.

[Whirley]

Oh yes, there is some info I missed, like these

 

Which confirm that it will be very easy and stable with the AFCS on. But I wonder why it will be very difficult to fly with AFCS off compared to conventional helicopters.

[dsc106]

Same question and concern. I don’t enjoy managing MFD and electronic systems. And I like helicopters for the seat of your pants fun/challenging flying experience.

what will it be like to PLAY this module? How will it be like to FLY it?

Is this going to be a pretty on rails flight experience, focused mostly on systems management?

is the main draw the team work and coordination for logistics? It sounds like the flying portion may be of limited interest?

[Smithy117]

Yeah with AFCS turned on the ch-47 will be very stable and easy to fly, if you wanted a challenge you could always turn it off but i definitely would not recommend as it will be incredibly difficult to control at high speed

[jubuttib]

On 5/4/2024 at 12:47 AM, Rogue Trooper said:

Yeah, I need to go through the previous posts that Chinook pilots posted.

The collective is thrust and the forward cyclic movement is collective.... Huhh?.... I need to re-read it, Surely I got that wrong as I was too quick scanning through the posts.

This seemed weird, but reading the full comment it makes sense. He's using "collective" as a term to increase/decrease the angle of all blades on a rotor simultaneously. So it makes sense that, being a tandem, pushing cyclic forward would increase collective on rear rotor and decrease it on front rotor, and vice versa. "Thrust" then adjust the total thrust of both rotors at the same time by increasing/decreasing collective on both rotors simultaneously.

So yeah, technical terminology because tandem layout, functionally the "collective" lever is the same as on other helis, and cyclic too, they just technically do different things from a normal heli to get the same result.

[Rogue Trooper]

I agree that the Automation may take some fun out of flying it, a bit like the F-16 or MI-8. 

No matter what it will be an incredibly useful machine for the blues, One flight will deliver a massive amount of kit to the front or rear lines. It will be an incredible tool.

DCS has a way of changing your mind about an aircraft when you are in the pit.

Years ago, I thought WHY the MI-8 when it was announced as a future release.... once released, I loved it so much that the Huey pretty much dropped off the Radar for me. 

[Sofapiloz]

Watch some displays of british CH47. Based on the bank angles, negative G manouvers and turn rates i seen, I think it can be a great mistake to judge the agility of the chinook by its mass. Have flown it on both sim's that here not should be named. And boy, i'm so curious about the FM in DCS. From my experience with the other two, this is a monster in power and maneuverability. If you keep it light and only fuel it for a short flight, it beats all previous DCS helicopters in this by a long shot! With the ability to carry tons of cargo and paxes. Man, can't wait to lay my hands on it's sticks! 

[ChrisUK27]

On 5/10/2024 at 8:17 AM, dsc106 said:

Same question and concern. I don’t enjoy managing MFD and electronic systems. And I like helicopters for the seat of your pants fun/challenging flying experience.

what will it be like to PLAY this module? How will it be like to FLY it?

Is this going to be a pretty on rails flight experience, focused mostly on systems management?

is the main draw the team work and coordination for logistics? It sounds like the flying portion may be of limited interest?

Just watch the RAF Chinook air display to see how you can throw it around, certain units *Cough* may fly A - B in a relatively straight line, Chinook has the potential to be great fun to fly and perhaps somewhat easier than say the Huey, Hip etc.

[47_Driver]

Late to the party here, but I can indeed confirm that the Chinook is a very easy helicopter to fly when the AFCS is on and everything is working.

She's also incredibly powerful and maneuverable. I will absolutely NEVER forget bringing the Engine Condition Levers to flight for the first time and feeling the sheer power of the aircraft around me. Terrifying and awesome at the same time.

Don't let the ease of maneuverability keep you from giving the aircraft a try, though. It's an absolute blast to fly and can do some amazing things. She's incredibly nimble for her size, and when she's not heavy with cargo you'd be shocked at what this aircraft can do. If DCS keeps up their track record of accurately representing flight models, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. Time will tell, but I'll be sure to give my opinions on the flight model when the module is released into EA on my Youtube channel, 47Driver.

[tusler]

Great short video of Vert-Rep with the 47's little brother the 46.

https://www.facebook.com/reel/2117788121924271

[badger7966]

Nothing sleek about it at all....it has the aerodynamics of a shovel !!! The original 47 must have been a bastard to fly with to AFCS !!!

[sirrah]

I can't suppress the feeling of being slightly disappointed that this beast seems so easy to fly (or at least very forgiving at take-off/hover)

"Taking off in the Chinook is about the easiest you can do right now in DCS"

No rant, but given the age of the Hook, I was kinda expecting somewhat more of a challenge to tame it. I sure hope landing and slingloading will be more challenging.

Edited August 4, 2024 by sirrah

[adrift_foolish1]

If you want a challenge, fly with the afcs off. The ch has no inherent stability without the computers. Imo the challenge should be in employment, not basic flight maneuvers.

[sirrah]

6 hours ago, adrift_foolish1 said:

Imo the challenge should be in employment, not basic flight maneuvers.

I would have liked both to be challenging

But again, not complaining, I just find it so rewarding to at some point master the flight controls.

The employment challenge would rest heavily on proper user made missions. I hope this transport helo will be popular enough to see many missions (I know I can easily make my own, but ED's mission editor is not famous for adding random events, so it'll be difficult to create missions with "surprises")

 

Anyone know how prone the Hook is to VRS?

Edited August 4, 2024 by sirrah

[47_Driver]

On 8/4/2024 at 3:51 AM, sirrah said:

I would have liked both to be challenging

But again, not complaining, I just find it so rewarding to at some point master the flight controls.

The employment challenge would rest heavily on proper user made missions. I hope this transport helo will be popular enough to see many missions (I know I can easily make my own, but ED's mission editor is not famous for adding random events, so it'll be difficult to create missions with "surprises")

 

Anyone know how prone the Hook is to VRS?

 

Not very prone to VRS. We'll see how DCS models that. Can absolutely get into it just like in any other helicopter, especially when heavy, but we generally don't put ourselves into a flight profile that would incur Settling With Power or VRS. If you do experience it, however, just remember that to escape Settling With Power or VRS in a Chinook requires lateral cyclic or pedal. Absolutely do not try forward cyclic like a normal helicopter or you will die.

 

@sirrah, I understand the desire for a challenge when flying a virtual aircraft. However, us IRL 47 Pilots are very grateful that she is so easy to fly.... Makes doing our jobs much easier! And yes, turn the AFCS off. Probably one of the most challenging helicopters in the world to fly with that off. Nothing makes sense.

Edited August 6, 2024 by Brickle

[fjacobsen]

VRS is mostly overdone in DCS - probably for gameplay reasons.

I once talked with a German army UH-1D instructor, who told that You would not enter VRS without purpose, and it needs to be heavy and either in hot or high conditions.

[47_Driver]

17 hours ago, fjacobsen said:

VRS is mostly overdone in DCS - probably for gameplay reasons.

I once talked with a German army UH-1D instructor, who told that You would not enter VRS without purpose, and it needs to be heavy and either in hot or high conditions.

I can agree that VRS seems a bit overdone in DCS, but I wouldn't say that you won't get into it unless it's on purpose. Task saturation is a driving factor here, and if you start to lose your scan on an approach I could absolutely see how you could wind up settling with power. Especially with internal cargo, because you forget it's there. In the 47 at least... High, hot, and heavy are definitely large contributors though.

[Rogue Trooper]

I think VRS is fine in DCS. A Vibrating Jetseat uses DCS Data to create vibrations in your sim seat which tells you what is happening to the airframe without the need to look at instruments.

I find it hard to fall into VRS or settling with power, I would need to do something real stoopid to get into VRS.... However DCS is a game where one's life is not under threat and therefore I do quite often do stoopid things.

Very much looking forward to the Cab (Hook), it's fantastic abilities as airlift is all I want but i am looking forward to trying to fly it without AFCS. 

Edited August 7, 2024 by Rogue Trooper

[ARM505]

Based on what I observed online last night, the CH47 is *amazing* at aerobatics

[markturner1960]

Well, I have crashed it 4 times in 4 flights......its certainly got some interesting quirks. It is very easy to take off too much collective and have it drop like a stone.....it also seems to be difficult to pitch up in forward flight like other Helos, but I guess down to the weight and mass. Overall, very different to the other small helos I fly in DCS ( Apache, Huey, Kiowa)

I think it will be fun learning how to fly it, shame there is not more instructional stuff around although I guess stuff will start popping up on you tube soon....

[DishDoggie]

You need to Fallow this Man he is a real CH47 Pilot and is just getting started on YouTube. He loves DCS and Flying his CH47. He asks for understanding because he does not do a lot of YouTube or Video making. As of now he only has 2 Videos 1 for DCS and 1 for MSFS. It don't matter to me how long or What he makes. He is a real CH47 Pilot and it will be real honest help like GOLD BARS in Learning Give 47Driver some YouTube Love.

 

[bfr]

1 hour ago, ARM505 said:

Based on what I observed online last night, the CH47 is *amazing* at aerobatics

Having seen it do several displays IRL then it is remarkably nimble with no load/low fuel.

[Andurula]

The flight model - at release - is a joke.

No wonder they said it was easy to fly.  Its not a helicopter flight model.

Small details like the deck angle at hover is wrong  but that's not the real problem.  

 

How about holding a hover at 1000 feet and then pulling the nose up performing a loop without losing more than a couple hundred feet?

Or push the nose down for an "outside loop" from a hover and still recovering before hitting the ground.

Or pushing forward to about 120 kts forward speed and hitting the yaw pedals and then spinning/skidding through the sky endlessly.

Barrel rolls?  No problem.

 

The rough systems modeling and avionics glitches are understandable and expected with a first release but this thing is pure fantasy.

[av8orDave]

1 hour ago, Andurula said:

The flight model - at release - is a joke.

No wonder they said it was easy to fly.  Its not a helicopter flight model.

Small details like the deck angle at hover is wrong  but that's not the real problem.  

 

How about holding a hover at 1000 feet and then pulling the nose up performing a loop without losing more than a couple hundred feet?

Or push the nose down for an "outside loop" from a hover and still recovering before hitting the ground.

Or pushing forward to about 120 kts forward speed and hitting the yaw pedals and then spinning/skidding through the sky endlessly.

Barrel rolls?  No problem.

 

The rough systems modeling and avionics glitches are understandable and expected with a first release but this thing is pure fantasy.

Some very basic things are way problematic with this release, even for an early access state, and it makes me believe something is seriously amiss at Eagle Dynamics.