reported Damage model of the VIKHRs broken

[_Defi]

Hello

I believe the damage model of the VIKHRs is broken. I have recorded a video of 6 VIKHRs hitting a helicopter. 

The first two VIKHRs take off the tail but the heli continuous to fly in a straight line. The third and fourth dont do any damage. And the last two take off another part of the tail section, but the rotors keep spinning. There is a fire. The helis are able to put out the fire and even come to a landing.

Here is the link to the video

 

[Flappie]

Nice video!

To start with, the Gazelle FM is bugged: it shouldn't fly this way without a tail. This bug was reported earlier. If you want to test the Vikhr, you'd better try a different helicopter (please note the Mi-24P is affected by the same bug, reported earlier as well).

Other than that, devs did check the Vilkhr damage a while ago and concluded the problem does not come from the Vikhr ; it comes from AI helicopters damage modeling being incorrect. AI helicopters are much too sturdy.

See this thread:

 

[_Defi]

1 hour ago, Flappie said:

Nice video!

To start with, the Gazelle FM is bugged: it shouldn't fly this way without a tail. This bug was reported earlier. If you want to test the Vikhr, you'd better try a different helicopter (please note the Mi-24P is affected by the same bug, reported earlier as well).

Other than that, devs did check the Vilkhr damage a while ago and concluded the problem does not come from the Vikhr ; it comes from AI helicopters damage modeling being incorrect. AI helicopters are much too sturdy.

See this thread:

 

Thanks. But are you sure this only affects AI models? Because from experience on PVP servers it is quite similar. 

[Flappie]

5 hours ago, _Defi said:

Thanks. But are you sure this only affects AI models? Because from experience on PVP servers it is quite similar. 

I've just tested a few things with the Mi-8. It seems the gap between AI and player DM has been somewhat filled (at least for the Mi-8).

• Strela vs Player and AI Mi-8: both are destroyed shortly after first hit (engine dead).
• AI-launched Vikhr vs Player and AI Mi-8: both are destroyed shortly after first hit (engine dead).
• Player A/G Vikhr vs 2 AI Mi-8: both are detroyed after second hit (the missile explodes when hitting the target, not easy, lots of missed shots). Here we see a difference with the AI.
• Player A/A Vikhr vs 2 AI Mi-8: both are detroyed after third hit (the missile explodes before reaching the target).

Maybe the AI aims better than me with the Vikhr?

Please try with a different target and tell me what you see. You can save the result as a DCS track from the debriefing page.

Strela vs Mi-8.trk AI_Vikhr vs Mi-8.trk Player_AA_Vikhr_VS_AI_Mi8.trk Player_AG_Vikhr_VS_AI_Mi8.trk

[MortalMando]

Thanks for taking the time and testing. Are there any reports on the igla damage? It seems to be very underperforming as well. Judging from PvP I remember hitting a hornet 3x and this thing still flying. I will do some testing and show the problem if this is not a known issue atm. 

[Flappie]

3 minutes ago, MortalMando said:

Thanks for taking the time and testing. Are there any reports on the igla damage?

Yes, there is one already.

[Flappie]

44 minutes ago, MortalMando said:

Judging from PvP I remember hitting a hornet 3x and this thing still flying. I will do some testing and show the problem if this is not a known issue atm. 

I've just tried lauching some Iglas at an AI Hornet. It often takes two missiles, sometimes just one if shot from behind. If you have a track which shows something worse, please bring it in.

Ka-50 Igla vs AI Hornet_2 hits_v1.trk Ka-50 Igla vs AI Hornet_2 hits_v2.trk Ka-50 Igla vs AI Hornet_2 hits_v3.trk

[RPY Variable]

On 5/7/2024 at 4:06 AM, Flappie said:

I've just tried lauching some Iglas at an AI Hornet. It often takes two missiles, sometimes just one if shot from behind. If you have a track which shows something worse, please bring it in.

Ka-50 Igla vs AI Hornet_2 hits_v1.trk 143.25 kB · 0 downloads Ka-50 Igla vs AI Hornet_2 hits_v2.trk 124.6 kB · 3 downloads Ka-50 Igla vs AI Hornet_2 hits_v3.trk 125.12 kB · 3 downloads

Two missiles hits is almost a unicorn... "it often takes two missile". This is a missile, not a machine gun. It should be -> It often takes one missile, not the other way around. And we are talking about a hornet, a small aircraft, that it cannot have the engines closer together than it has them, it should be one of the mos fragile airframes of all.

[Flappie]

On 5/7/2024 at 9:06 AM, Flappie said:

sometimes just one if shot from behind

See my tracks.

[Hobel]

 

 

I have also had the experience of using Missles 2-4 for one Apache in PVP

 

 

 

[RPY Variable]

4 Vikhr's to A-10 (2 shots of 2 salvos)... kept flying like nothing, not even smoke... Head on, like 5km.. he was flying directly to me, then he fire a sidewinder and I blew up.

[Flappie]

@RPY Variable I cannot show a simple screenshot to devs. They need DCS tracks. Thank you.

[RPY Variable]

10 hours ago, Flappie said:

@RPY Variable I cannot show a simple screenshot to devs. They need DCS tracks. Thank you.

It happened on contention server, so I won't upload a 3-hour-long log file.

Nevertheless, it's a long-standing problem (multiple years). It doesn't seem to me that it's a matter of "trying to replicate"... anyone who flies the ka-50 and tries to shoot it at an airborne target knows what I'm talking about.

I know that the ideal would be to set up the scenario in the editor, replicate it perfectly, save the log and upload it. But I have the VR chair apart from the pc, to me, it's a whole issue... I solved it easier. I don't fly it anymore.

I clarify that I do not want to be rude to you, I understand that you put the best predisposition for the reports, but I confess, my hope for a solution is zero. So I don't have the desire to invest much time other than a screen and say I saw this.

[Flappie]

I thank you for your kind answer. Previous efforts to demonstrate the issue were mostly made with helicopters, but many helos in DCS have important DM issues, which makes things even more confusing.

Let's try to shoot down some airplanes. In the footage above, the plane looks like a MiG-19 although I'm not sure. Let's try it to shoot 3 MiG-19P:

• AA mode : all three planes are only damaged
• AG mode : all three planes are destroyed

It seems like the AA mode is useless, at least in DCS.

Vikhr_vs_MiG19_AA.trk Vikhr_vs_MiG19_AG.trk

[Flappie]

And the result is nearly identical with F-5Es:

• AA mode : two out of three planes are only damaged
• AG mode : all three planes are destroyed

I will ask devs about this weird behaviour.

EDIT: Ka-50 AA issue reported.

Vikhr_vs_F-5E_AG.trk Vikhr_vs_F-5E_AA.trk

Edited August 26, 2024 by Flappie