AI aircraft to flesh out the modules.

[PhantomHans]

Request:

Additional AI aircraft, even if featuring relatively simple 3D models, avionics modeling, and simplified FMs.

Purpose:

Additional immersion into time periods or scenarios.

Examples:

A-6A/E, A-7B/E, KA-6D.  The current F-14A is missing all of the appropriate aircraft to accompany it on the deck and in the air.  In the case of the A-7B it would perhaps be best to model it as being incorrectly able to fuel from both tanker types so it can be skinned and passed off as an A-7D.  It would also be "nice to have" a C-2 COD and an earlier E-2.

 

MiG-23MS, MiG-23M, MiG-21PF, MiG-21F-13.  Opponents to the upcoming F-4E.  The 23M and MS could be based on the existing 23MLD with alterations to make them suitable substitutes. 

F-111A/F.  Flew in Vietnam, Libya, Desert Storm.  I think the D and E models are similar enough to the A to be skipped over, and the F-111G unimportant enough to skip as well.  Would make great additions to missions using the upcoming F-4E, and any DS inspired missions on the Iraq map.

 

Suggestion:

If ED can't handle this on their own then make it a third party add on and market it as an expansion pack.  This could even include ground objects such as more cold war SAM systems like the SA-3 Goa, SA-4 Ganef, cold war era tanks, ships, etc.

[Andrew8604]

AI modules:  Since an A-6E may eventually become a full module, I'd say the A-6A (can Heatblur give us an AI A-6A?...and, the KA-6D as another carrier-based tanker?)  Also, the KA-3B Skywarrior as a carrier-based tanker!  The RA-5C Vigilante and RF-8G Crusader as carrier-based, cold-war reconnaissance birds.  And an F-8E Crusader (although, there is a modded version of this one being worked on.)  Can FlyingIron give us an AI A-7B and A-7D?  Maybe Crosstail Studios can give us some AI Skyraiders?  There is a community mod F9F-2 Panther.  Just as an AI aircraft, that is pretty cool looking.

There needs to be a full, flyable module of an F-111 made, too.  I don't know which version would be coolest.  Probably the F-111F.  That would probably be suitable in a Vietnam map.  Maybe Heatblur could make it because they supposedly will make the mission-similar A-6E Intruder.  Or RAZBAM (are they still with us?) because they made the progeny of the F-111, the Strike Eagle.  Or maybe even FlyingIron, after the A-7E.  Long way off...maybe by 2030?

[Northstar98]

Yep, absolutely agreed, they would go a very long way to fleshing out scenarios.

For carrier aviation, the A-6E and KA-6D Intruder is supposed to be coming by HB. That largely just leaves a more appropriate E-2C (Group 0 for Forrestal, a 2000 for the Supercarrier) and the EA-6B Prowler (there is a mod, but ideally we'd get one as a core unit of similar quality to other AI units).

There's definitely quite a bit missing for the Kola Peninsula map - Tu-16 is a prominent one (K-10/K-10-26/K-26P/RM-1/P) as is the Il-38. I definitely wouldn't say no to a Su-15TM.

I'd definitely go for more variants of the MiG-23 - the M, MF and MS would probably be my top picks and are probably the most relevant versions for DCS. Same for the MiG-21 - the F-13 and PFM would be my picks.

For the F-111, I'd rather go with F-111Es and Fs (if not both, preferably the latter) circa Operation El Dorado Canyon (which would also fit well for ODS and late Cold War gone hot).

I would also mention the B-52G and/or a pre-1991 B-52H (i.e. with the tail gun).

On 5/20/2024 at 2:10 AM, PhantomHans said:

This could even include ground objects such as more cold war SAM systems like the SA-3 Goa, SA-4 Ganef, cold war era tanks, ships, etc.

We have the SA-3, we don't have an SA-4 however (and that, alongside the SA-7 are really the only relevant single-digit systems entirely missing from DCS).

I think something that would be worth mentioning are EWRs and completing battery components for current SAMs. For the former, I'm mostly talking about things like the P-37 (for which a model already exists in the game files and has done for over a decade now), the P-80 and the 5N84A. The SA-2 is missing the P-12M/P-18, the SA-5 is missing the 5N84A.

For Cold War tanks (centering on the late Cold War, as this is where most of our Cold War assets are centered around, and my particular favourite ) :

• Challenger Mk. 2/3
• Chieftain Mk. 10
• Leopard 1A1Ax
• M1/M1IP Abrams
• T-62
• T-64B/BV
• T-72M/M1
• T-80B/BV

Would be my picks.

For Cold War ships... Dear me, there's so many, where to start?

• DD 963 (Spruance) - any configuration as long as it has Mk 15 Phalanx Block 0 and RGM-84 Harpoon (be it Mk 112, Mk 112 + ABL or Mk 41 VLS - the latter is probably more applicable to DCS, considering we don't have ASW)
• DDG 2 (Charles F. Adams) or DDG 40 (Coontz)
• CGN-38 (Virginia) or GC 47 Baseline 0/1 (Ticonderoga)
• Oslo FFG
• BPK Pr. 1143A Berkut [Kresta II CG]
• EM Pr. 956 Sarych [Sovremenny DDG]

Would probably be my top picks, though far from an exhaustive list.

Edited May 22, 2024 by Northstar98

[PhantomHans]

I think that in the case of AI aircraft that may eventually become full modules, the AI aircraft should be designed as 'low resource use' aircraft.  That way if or when we get the full module they'll still be useful in scenarios where they're just filler, or can be used in large numbers with less FPS hit.

[Silver_Dragon]

9 hours ago, PhantomHans said:

Request:

Additional AI aircraft, even if featuring relatively simple 3D models, avionics modeling, and simplified FMs.

Purpose:

Additional immersion into time periods or scenarios.

Examples:

A-6A/E, A-7B/E, KA-6D.  The current F-14A is missing all of the appropriate aircraft to accompany it on the deck and in the air.  In the case of the A-7B it would perhaps be best to model it as being incorrectly able to fuel from both tanker types so it can be skinned and passed off as an A-7D.  It would also be "nice to have" a C-2 COD and an earlier E-2.

 

MiG-23MS, MiG-23M, MiG-21PF, MiG-21F-13.  Opponents to the upcoming F-4E.  The 23M and MS could be based on the existing 23MLD with alterations to make them suitable substitutes. 

F-111A/F.  Flew in Vietnam, Libya, Desert Storm.  I think the D and E models are similar enough to the A to be skipped over, and the F-111G unimportant enough to skip as well.  Would make great additions to missions using the upcoming F-4E, and any DS inspired missions on the Iraq map.

 

Suggestion:

If ED can't handle this on their own then make it a third party add on and market it as an expansion pack.  This could even include ground objects such as more cold war SAM systems like the SA-3 Goa, SA-4 Ganef, cold war era tanks, ships, etc.

Has many modules incoming / on develop by ED & 3rd parties and always coming with propper AI Units. Make propper AI units, take many time and remember ED require a Quality standard before integrate them and suport.

Sa-3 units has present into DCS World AI units, other units has on progress by ED, and some 3rd parties has making more objects.

5 hours ago, Andrew8604 said:

AI modules:  Since an A-6E may eventually become a full module, I'd say the A-6A (can Heatblur give us an AI A-6A?...and, the KA-6D as another carrier-based tanker?)  Also, the KA-3B Skywarrior as a carrier-based tanker!  The RA-5C Vigilante and RF-8G Crusader as carrier-based, cold-war reconnaissance birds.  And an F-8E Crusader (although, there is a modded version of this one being worked on.)  Can FlyingIron give us an AI A-7B and A-7D?  Maybe Crosstail Studios can give us some AI Skyraiders?  There is a community mod F9F-2 Panther.  Just as an AI aircraft, that is pretty cool looking.

There needs to be a full, flyable module of an F-111 made, too.  I don't know which version would be coolest.  Probably the F-111F.  That would probably be suitable in a Vietnam map.  Maybe Heatblur could make it because they supposedly will make the mission-similar A-6E Intruder.  Or RAZBAM (are they still with us?) because they made the progeny of the F-111, the Strike Eagle.  Or maybe even FlyingIron, after the A-7E.  Long way off...maybe by 2030?

Heatblur has making the A-6E and the KA-6D Tanker. AI units require "AI teams on develop studios" outside of the module version building, and many 3rd parties only centred on propper AI units based on the module version, no outside with some exceptions. 

 

Edited May 20, 2024 by Silver_Dragon

[draconus]

1 hour ago, PhantomHans said:

I think that in the case of AI aircraft that may eventually become full modules, the AI aircraft should be designed as 'low resource use' aircraft.  That way if or when we get the full module they'll still be useful in scenarios where they're just filler, or can be used in large numbers with less FPS hit.

New AI are made in high quality standards for 3D models but have Standard FM and Simplified avionics. If they come with proper LOD models they're fine performance wise.

10 hours ago, PhantomHans said:

If ED can't handle this on their own then make it a third party add on and market it as an expansion pack.

I'd stay away from paid packs generally.

[Czar66]

10 hours ago, PhantomHans said:

If ED can't handle this on their own then make it a third party add on and market it as an expansion pack.  This could even include ground objects such as more cold war SAM systems like the SA-3 Goa, SA-4 Ganef, cold war era tanks, ships, etc.

This would fracture the multiplayer. Anything like the WWII asset pack gives me the shivers. Yikes.

The way ED is taking is better, like the B-1 and B-52 models. Decent ->free<- models for them and upcoming paid pack with very high module quality models for the planes in question.

Imagine the hell if 5 or more asset packs were out there and if you miss 1 the server is using on a corner of an airfield you're barred from joining.

[PhantomHans]

18 minutes ago, Czar66 said:

This would fracture the multiplayer. Anything like the WWII asset pack gives me the shivers. Yikes.

The way ED is taking is better, like the B-1 and B-52 models. Decent ->free<- models for them and upcoming paid pack with very high module quality models for the planes in question.

Imagine the hell if 5 or more asset packs were out there and if you miss 1 the server is using on a corner of an airfield you're barred from joining.

I'm fine with it being free but I'm not fine with spending eternity using S-3B Vikings and F/A-18s to represent the A-6A, A-6E, KA-6D, C-2 COD, and the A-7A/B/C/E.

 

 

[Silver_Dragon]

1 hour ago, PhantomHans said:

I'm fine with it being free but I'm not fine with spending eternity using S-3B Vikings and F/A-18s to represent the A-6A, A-6E, KA-6D, C-2 COD, and the A-7A/B/C/E.

• F-4E/A-6E/KA-6D coming from Heatblur as IA. Some claims of future F-4B/N on a future.
• A-7E coming from Flying Iron as AI.
• F-8J by Magnitude 3 as AI.
• A-1H by Crosstail Studios as AI.

Edited May 20, 2024 by Silver_Dragon

[Czar66]

1 hour ago, PhantomHans said:

I'm fine with it being free but I'm not fine with spending eternity using S-3B Vikings and F/A-18s to represent the A-6A, A-6E, KA-6D, C-2 COD, and the A-7A/B/C/E.

 

 

They are coming, dude... Have a look on old Wags videos or anything DCS related from back 6 years and see how things evolved. Soon enough we'll be asking for other stuff.

It is the matter of the glass half full or half empty.

[Andrew8604]

On 5/20/2024 at 5:39 AM, Silver_Dragon said:

Has many modules incoming / on develop by ED & 3rd parties and always coming with propper AI Units. Make propper AI units, take many time and remember ED require a Quality standard before integrate them and suport.

Sa-3 units has present into DCS World AI units, other units has on progress by ED, and some 3rd parties has making more objects.

Heatblur has making the A-6E and the KA-6D Tanker. AI units require "AI teams on develop studios" outside of the module version building, and many 3rd parties only centred on propper AI units based on the module version, no outside with some exceptions. 

 

 

Silver_Dragon are you a member of ED or 3rd party dev?  I thought you were, but now your profile doesn't look like it.  Maybe I was mistaken.

I think what you're saying is that ED and 3rd party devs are NOT going to make an AI version that is a different variant of the module they are making.  I understand that.  I was hoping that if FlyingIron, just for example, while making the A-7E full module, could possibly give us an AI & static version well in advance of the full module being finished...if that's not too much work and is along the path of creating the more feature rich AI they will eventually release with their full module anyway.  They may have reasons why they would not.  That's ok.  The A-7E has complex weapons delivery modes.  So, I was thinking, what if they gave us a simplified A-7E that can only do basic dumb-bomb, rocket and a/g gun delivery and maybe AIM-9 Sidewinder self-protection.  If they don't want to give the full A-7E AI yet, perhaps a USAF A-7D?  That would give us an AI-only version to play around with until their full module is ready.  Maybe it makes no sense from their point of view.  It was just a thought.  I have no idea if FlyingIron will make other versions of the A-7 besides the A-7E.  Likely not.  Although, I would purchase each of the A-7B, D & E versions if they made them all.  Or just the D & E versions.  But if they are ONLY going to make the E version as a full module, it's very unlikely anyone else would make the USAF A-7D version.  Maybe they would be kind enough to make an AI version of the A-7D, which could be functionally the same and very close in 3D model to the E version.  The A-7B may just not be worth the effort even as just an AI version.

Has Heatblur said they will make a full module of both the A-6E and the KA-6D?  Or is that a full module of just the A-6E with AI version, and an AI-only "DCS tanker" version of the KA-6D?  I think the latter is more likely.

Same with the others.  It would be cool to get a limited-functionality AI-only and static version of the modules at some point in advance of the full module being ready.

[draconus]

18 minutes ago, Andrew8604 said:

Has Heatblur said they will make a full module of both the A-6E and the KA-6D?  Or is that a full module of just the A-6E with AI version, and an AI-only "DCS tanker" version of the KA-6D?  I think the latter is more likely.

Yes, the latter is what they plan.

19 minutes ago, Andrew8604 said:

It would be cool to get a limited-functionality AI-only and static version of the modules at some point in advance of the full module being ready.

This is not how the devs do it usually. There are some AI aircraft added by ED from time to time or just the refreshment of old models. There are some new AI added sometimes by 3rd parties like Deka. Usually the AI comes with the release of the new modules and maybe later are added some new AI to the core by the devs of the module. I wouldn't count on other A-7 than the one that is gonna be simulated.

You have options:

• Play with what you have.
• Play pretend with some close counterparts.
• Use mods.

Waiting and counting on something to hit DCS is not good for mental health.

[Silver_Dragon]

1 hour ago, Andrew8604 said:

Silver_Dragon are you a member of ED or 3rd party dev?  I thought you were, but now your profile doesn't look like it.  Maybe I was mistaken.

I think what you're saying is that ED and 3rd party devs are NOT going to make an AI version that is a different variant of the module they are making.  I understand that.  I was hoping that if FlyingIron, just for example, while making the A-7E full module, could possibly give us an AI & static version well in advance of the full module being finished...if that's not too much work and is along the path of creating the more feature rich AI they will eventually release with their full module anyway.  They may have reasons why they would not.  That's ok.  The A-7E has complex weapons delivery modes.  So, I was thinking, what if they gave us a simplified A-7E that can only do basic dumb-bomb, rocket and a/g gun delivery and maybe AIM-9 Sidewinder self-protection.  If they don't want to give the full A-7E AI yet, perhaps a USAF A-7D?  That would give us an AI-only version to play around with until their full module is ready.  Maybe it makes no sense from their point of view.  It was just a thought.  I have no idea if FlyingIron will make other versions of the A-7 besides the A-7E.  Likely not.  Although, I would purchase each of the A-7B, D & E versions if they made them all.  Or just the D & E versions.  But if they are ONLY going to make the E version as a full module, it's very unlikely anyone else would make the USAF A-7D version.  Maybe they would be kind enough to make an AI version of the A-7D, which could be functionally the same and very close in 3D model to the E version.  The A-7B may just not be worth the effort even as just an AI version.

Has Heatblur said they will make a full module of both the A-6E and the KA-6D?  Or is that a full module of just the A-6E with AI version, and an AI-only "DCS tanker" version of the KA-6D?  I think the latter is more likely.

Same with the others.  It would be cool to get a limited-functionality AI-only and static version of the modules at some point in advance of the full module being ready.

Meanwhile has no part actualy of ED/3rd Parties, remember I maintain the "Unoficial Roadmap" and follow the module develop.

Normaly AI units by ED and 3rd parties has make by the propper model or module on develop, no more aditional, except if ED and 3rd party talk about aditionals AI units on progress.

Example:

• ED has a line of AI units on progress:
  • To update old Lomac/FC units to actual standars
    • Released (2024):
      • B-1B, B-52H, S-3B, S300, etc
    • On progress:
      • Aircrafts:
        • C-17, CH-47F (By propper module), F6F (By propper module), il-38 May, Mig-29A (By propper module), SH-60B, Tu-95MS, Tu-142, Tu-160, etc
      • Infantry
        • Georgia 2010-20 AK infantry soldier, Russian 2010-20 AK infantry soldier, Russian 2010-20 AK parachute soldier, Usa 2010-20 M-4 infantry soldier (Show on CH-47F video).
      • Ships
      • Vehicles
  • WW2 Assets Pack
    • On Progress ETO/PTO Units
      • Aircrafts
      • Ships
      • Vehicles

About 3rd parties. FlyingIron only confirm the A-7E, nothing more, and no more AI Units, as other 3rd Parties. Heatblur has confirmed the A-6E module, the propper A-6E & KA-6D AI units and missing two aditional Forrestal class CVs, and has plans to make a J-35J Draken AI to the AJ-37 module

Meanwile the only 3rd party working on a propper "assets packs" has:

• Dekka (Chinnese Assets Pack).
• Magnitude 3 (PTO Units assets pack).
• Massun92’s Assets Pack (Base Units asstes pack)
• RAZBAM (South Atlantic assets pack)

About them, can we expected aditional units by time to time. The problem about making aditional AI units, has the 3rd parties require build a "AI units team", outside of Modules and maps teams, to make that aditional stuff. That require time, resorces and personal to make propper assets, and reach the quality standars by ED.

Edited May 21, 2024 by Silver_Dragon

[PhantomHans]

Id be perfectly happy to get basic AI versions soon and get fully polished modules later.

 

If it means A-6/A-7 thay are only able to do dumb bombs, a few guided weapons like Walleye and GBU, HARMs, and self defense AIM-9 then that's plenty.  They can skip guns and rockets for all I care.

 

I just want them for the eye candy.

[Silver_Dragon]

16 hours ago, PhantomHans said:

Id be perfectly happy to get basic AI versions soon and get fully polished modules later.

 

If it means A-6/A-7 thay are only able to do dumb bombs, a few guided weapons like Walleye and GBU, HARMs, and self defense AIM-9 then that's plenty.  They can skip guns and rockets for all I care.

 

I just want them for the eye candy.

AI units has not eye candy, that comming with the same weapons of the modules. That is not a cake slide.