Is asking for SEPECAT Jaguar a good idea ? Or not.

[Cab]

8 hours ago, DmitriKozlowsky said:

Well I think its all declassified now, so modules can be high fidelity from soup to nuts. Except IFF. IFF modes 3 and 4 are still classified, so can't really be simulated. But they can be adequately emulated in DCS, just by having one side set IFF code as specified by mission master. If playa' not set code  playa gets ded! Same thing for secure encrypted comms. Just have user go through motions of setting dials and rotaries properly. There is no need for actual simulation of encryption avionics. If settings are incorrect , the player cant communicate. As Khan noonien Singh would say "Let them eat static".

Not the reason I was thinking, but just as relevant. 

[Bremspropeller]

On 6/1/2024 at 10:15 AM, Northstar98 said:

A Jaguar GR.1/1A would work on a Cold War Germany map for the mid 70s-mid 80s (if it included the North German Plain that is - based at RAF Brüggen and RAF Laarbruch) and would fit into Operation Desert Storm scenarios as well.

It would however be a fairly limited aircraft, which might make it more of a difficult sell, particularly with a late 80s Tornado IDS in the works.

Personally though, I think as far as RAF aircraft go from the era, I'd much rather have an RAF Buccaneer S.2B of similar vintage, you get a radar, you get Pave Spike, you get Cold War guided munitions and hey, maybe the potential is there for an RN version (though personally, I'm far more interested in the RAF version, which was far more historically relevant).

A Jag Gr.1 is essentially closing the gap between the Harrier Gr3 and the Tornado. Think of it as a single seat Tornado without a radar, but with afterburning hairdryers.

Mission-wise it's quite interesting and I personally don't get the fixiation on guided munitions for 70s aircraft. That was just a sub-set of strike or attack missions.

I'm personally more interested in the french Jag, as it also had the SEAD mission with the ARMAT and it saw quite a bit more action - in Africa. African maps is also what I'm much more interested in, but I guess that's just me and everybody else wants to pretend the Cold War gone hot (TM) would stay conventional for more than two hours.

 

Edited June 2, 2024 by Bremspropeller

[Qcumber]

4 hours ago, DmitriKozlowsky said:

I suspect that many of DCS users, like real life Jag pilots , would find it underpowered. When Jag gets below power curve, it becomes dangerous and difficult.

That doesn't matter for me. It's about flying the aircraft. 

[Northstar98]

1 hour ago, Bremspropeller said:

Mission-wise it's quite interesting and I personally don't get the fixiation on guided munitions for 70s aircraft. That was just a sub-set of strike or attack missions.

I'm personally more interested in the french Jag, as it also had the SEAD mission with the ARMAT

It's perfectly fine if you prefer a French Jaguar, no quarrel at all there. However, do you see the somewhat irony of saying you don't get the fixation and then recommending an aircraft in part due to it having guided munitions?

For the record I'm not fixated on guided munitions, or capabilities in general - I'd happily fly the fairly hopeless Yak-38 if given the chance. But having guided munitions would probably broaden wider appeal over a Jaguar of similar vintage. For what it's worth, the Buccaneer also has the same ARMAT (AS 37 Martel radar), just it also gets the TV/DL AJ 168 Martel video as well, potentially the Sea Eagle anti-ship missile and the Paveway II (UK) (which is essentially a GBU-10 only with a 1000 lb Mk 13 GPB as a warhead, instead of the Mk 84 or BLU-109), with self-designation capability from Pave Spike.

1 hour ago, Bremspropeller said:

African maps is also what I'm much more interested in, but I guess that's just me and everybody else wants to pretend the Cold War gone hot (TM) would stay conventional for more than two hours.

Yeah - I mean, that's perfectly valid.

The only thing I would say is that we don't have an African map, but we do have Syria, potentially Germany in the future too for the Buccaneer.

Edited June 2, 2024 by Northstar98
How I managed to misspell fairly as fairless I don't know

[Bremspropeller]

3 minutes ago, Northstar98 said:

It's perfectly fine if you prefer a French Jaguar, no quarrel at all there. However, do you see the somewhat irony of saying you don't get the fixation and then recommending an aircraft in part due to it having guided munitions?

For the record I'm not fixated on guided munitions, or capabilities in general - I'd happily fly the fairless hopeless Yak-38 if given the chance. But having guided munitions would probably broaden wider appeal over a Jaguar of similar vintage. For what it's worth, the Buccaneer also has the same ARMAT (AS 37 Martel radar), just it also gets the TV/DL AJ 168 Martel video as well, potentially the Sea Eagle anti-ship missile and the Paveway II (UK) (which is essentially a GBU-10 only with a 1000 lb Mk 13 GPB as a warhead, instead of the Mk 84 or BLU-109), with self-designation capability from Pave Spike.

Yeah - I mean, that's perfectly valid.

The only thing I would say is that we don't have an African map, but we do have Syria, potentially Germany in the future too for the Buccaneer.

I wasn't referencing you in particular. I'm seeing lots of people wanting fancy guided ammo, though, and CW aircraft at the same time. That mixture doesn't work that well, though. Most of the steamgauge-punk jets is bombing tables and Kentucky windage.

Yes, the ARMAT is guided (as is the AS.30L), but you'll have few LGBs, TV/IR guided missiles or even the magic-squared GPS stuff. The ARMAT comes with exciting opposition (SAMs) and the AS.30L has a relatively short effective range. Still, those weapons weren't used primarily in theater - mostly rockets, 30mm or dumb bombs did the job. ARMATs were used against Ouadi Doum.

I don't think the Bucc ever got the ARMAT, which was a highly specialized french developmet of the initial MARTEL.

 

[Northstar98]

7 minutes ago, Bremspropeller said:

I wasn't referencing you in particular. I'm seeing lots of people wanting fancy guided ammo, though, and CW aircraft at the same time. That mixture doesn't work that well, though. Most of the steamgauge-punk jets is bombing tables and Kentucky windage.

Well, it depends on what part of the Cold War you go for. For me, I'm more into 1983 (i.e. Able Archer '83 what-if) - 1987 (i.e. Red Storm Rising) scenarios and there, you do have LGBs, ASMs/AShMs, earlier stuff though, with much more rudimentary targeting options (such as Pave Spike and Pave Tack).

12 minutes ago, Bremspropeller said:

don't think the Bucc ever got the ARMAT, which was a highly specialized french developmet of the initial MARTEL

Ahh, my mistake - I had mistakenly confused the 2 as being different designations for the same missile, but no, ARMAT is different (albeit a development), though the Buccaneer would still have both versions of the Martel, so it would have SEAD capability, albeit at shorter ranges.

[DmitriKozlowsky]

6 hours ago, Bremspropeller said:

A Jag Gr.1 is essentially closing the gap between the Harrier Gr3 and the Tornado. Think of it as a single seat Tornado without a radar, but with afterburning hairdryers.

Mission-wise it's quite interesting and I personally don't get the fixiation on guided munitions for 70s aircraft. That was just a sub-set of strike or attack missions.

I'm personally more interested in the french Jag, as it also had the SEAD mission with the ARMAT and it saw quite a bit more action - in Africa. African maps is also what I'm much more interested in, but I guess that's just me and everybody else wants to pretend the Cold War gone hot (TM) would stay conventional for more than two hours.

 

 

Jaguar would work in Germany theater, Kola theater, all African theaters, MidEast, Gulf,South Atlantic. It works everywhere.

[DD_fruitbat]

Did somebody say 'Buccaneer'.....

Yes please. With a cherry on top.

[Qcumber]

21 hours ago, DD_fruitbat said:

Did somebody say 'Buccaneer'.....

Yes please. With a cherry on top.

The buccaneer is a fugly plane but it would be interesting to fly. 

[DmitriKozlowsky]

Hypothetically. Lets say a dev holds rights to DCS: Jaguar and DCS: F-111C/F (but not SAC B), and has resources for one , but not both, and unwilling to let either of rights go. What is more preferrable for DCS strike fixed wing community? DCS: SEPACAT Jaguar or DCS: F-111C/F? 

I am with team Jag. Probably British and French DCS playas would go with that.  Americans and Australians, reliving golden years of Cold War, would likely opt for F-111.

[mkellytx]

The Jag would be great for Kola.  One of their war time missions if the CW went hot was deploy to Bardufoss and lob GBU's at bridges the SAS were lasing.

[Cab]

On 6/4/2024 at 1:42 PM, DmitriKozlowsky said:

Hypothetically. Lets say a dev holds rights to DCS: Jaguar and DCS: F-111C/F (but not SAC B), and has resources for one , but not both, and unwilling to let either of rights go. What is more preferrable for DCS strike fixed wing community? DCS: SEPACAT Jaguar or DCS: F-111C/F? 

I am with team Jag. Probably British and French DCS playas would go with that.  Americans and Australians, reliving golden years of Cold War, would likely opt for F-111.

lol I just imagined the complaints from the REDFOR crowd if the F-111 was added to Cold War servers. 

[DmitriKozlowsky]

21 minutes ago, Cab said:

lol I just imagined the complaints from the REDFOR crowd if the F-111 was added to Cold War servers. 

Those REDFOR dish-bags just want to releive the faded glory of Evil Soviet Empire. They hail Chernenko, and Brazsnev, whike cursing Gorby. Though Mig-27 would be interesting. But only if its detailed high fidelity with Soviet Russian reverse engineneered ARBS that they took from West.

[Cab]

1 hour ago, DmitriKozlowsky said:

Those REDFOR dish-bags just want to releive the faded glory of Evil Soviet Empire. They hail Chernenko, and Brazsnev, whike cursing Gorby. Though Mig-27 would be interesting. But only if its detailed high fidelity with Soviet Russian reverse engineneered ARBS that they took from West.

Well that escalated quickly.