Kusch Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 Indian Su-30MKI crash near Jaisalmer in Rajasthan, killing one of the two pilots. The incident occurred at around 1020 hours near Rajmathai village, about 70 kms from here, when the plane, the squadron of which is based in Pune, was on a routine exercise, Defence PRO Lt. Col N N Joshi said. According to district officials, one of the two pilots, who were both holding the rank of wing commander, was killed. The other pilot managed to eject safely from the aircraft, they said. A court of inquiry has been ordered into the incident, IAF sources said. 1 Give me "flying telephone pole" (SA-2)! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vekkinho Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 ... Sukhoi's bad month! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topol-m Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 ... Sukhoi's bad month! Very bad indeed. I hope the russians are showing the indian pilots how to fly those planes before selling them. More info on the cause of the crash needed. Hope the problem was not in the bird itself. 1 [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 Who says its the Indian's fault? Russian planes crash all the time - just like everyone else's planes. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topol-m Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 Who says its the Indian's fault? Russian planes crash all the time - just like everyone else's planes. I`m not saying that, i`m hoping thats the case. But official story will confirm it or deny it. I certainly wouldn`t like seeing russian planes crashing every month. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nscode Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 Yea, because they sure didn't show them how to fly the MiG-21 Never forget that World War III was not Cold for most of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topol-m Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 In fact, from your experience in the army (those of you that have one), is there a trend to blame pilots for similar incidents or the machine. Probably there is politics involved especially when we are talking about new fighters, it is important also if it is your country thats producing it, selling it, etc., etc. But anyway what are your observations. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EtherealN Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 Well, to be honest, in civilian life most crashes seem to be pilot error too. And with military jets by nature living closer to the edge, the risk of fatal mistakes on the part of the pilots would increase. But I haven't seen any collation of accident reports that look specifically at that ratio so I don't know. I wouldn't be surprised if it was mostly pilot error and that that judgement is fair. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Daniel "EtherealN" Agorander | Даниэль "эфирныйн" Агорандер Intel i7 2600K @ 4.4GHz, ASUS Sabertooth P67, 8GB Corsair Vengeance @ 1600MHz, ASUS GTX 560Ti DirectCU II 1GB, Samsung 830series 512GB SSD, Corsair AX850w, two BENQ screens and TM HOTAS Warthog DCS: A-10C Warthog FAQ | DCS: P-51D FAQ | Remember to read the Forum Rules | | | Life of a Game Tester Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilde Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 I always thought most civil aviation accidents are caused by bad maintenance. Basically someone doing sloppy work. I'd suppose this is the same for military aviation. We'll learn what happened with the Indian Su-30 sooner or later. No point in making presumptions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedTiger Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 I always thought most civil aviation accidents are caused by bad maintenance. Basically someone doing sloppy work. I'd suppose this is the same for military aviation. We'll learn what happened with the Indian Su-30 sooner or later. No point in making presumptions. I would assume that any time a human being starts operating a machine, statistically most accidents are probably going to be caused by the human being. It doesn't mean they don't know what they're doing, it just means that they're human. Humans make mistakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilotasso Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 Very bad indeed. I hope the russians are showing the indian pilots how to fly those planes before selling them. More info on the cause of the crash needed. Hope the problem was not in the bird itself. The indians probably the best trained pilots in the world flying russian airframes. I say airframes because their insides are realy international. [sigpic]http://forums.eagle.ru/signaturepics/sigpic4448_29.gif[/sigpic] My PC specs below:Case: Corsair 400C PSU: SEASONIC SS-760XP2 760W Platinum CPU: AMD RYZEN 3900X (12C/24T) RAM: 32 GB 4266Mhz (two 2x8 kits) of trident Z RGB @3600Mhz CL 14 CR=1T MOBO: ASUS CROSSHAIR HERO VI AM4 GFX: GTX 1080Ti MSI Gaming X Cooler: NXZT Kraken X62 280mm AIO Storage: Samsung 960 EVO 1TB M.2+6GB WD 6Gb red HOTAS: Thrustmaster Warthog + CH pro pedals Monitor: Gigabyte AORUS AD27QD Freesync HDR400 1440P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sulman Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 If they're pushing - remember military flying can be inherently high risk - then it is understandable that accidents will occur. Training kills a lot of people. Back in the 50's and early 60's, when supersonic, swept-wing aircraft became commonplace, casualties were eye-watering. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vekkinho Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 (edited) Very bad indeed. I hope the russians are showing the indian pilots how to fly those planes before selling them. More info on the cause of the crash needed. Hope the problem was not in the bird itself. I'm not gonna put my money on it but I'm pretty sure Indian pilots could teach Russians some flying ticks, especially after Red Flag experience and a fact they log more hours in Flanker than any other user! Edit: I was quoting Topol directly so I haven't noticed Pilotasso's post taht says the same thing! Sorry 'bout that! Edited May 2, 2009 by Vekkinho [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HansRoaming Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 If they're pushing - remember military flying can be inherently high risk - then it is understandable that accidents will occur. Training kills a lot of people. Back in the 50's and early 60's, when supersonic, swept-wing aircraft became commonplace, casualties were eye-watering. The F104 wasn't known as the Widowmaker for nothing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikoyan Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 The weakest link is always the human. This is the first mki accident, so I guess that the Indians have very good safety record with their sukhois. About the mig-21 accidents, you got to consider that this airplane has been operating on a very difficult environment (lost of big birds, high temperatures, extreme humidity etc.) also there is an Indian Air-force report that says that the indian mig-21 are a more difficult to land due to the weight that it gained by the implementation of more equipment. for the f104 is almost the same history. The germans had lots of accidents but after they learned the peculiarities of the jet, the accident rates decreased. Both the mig and f104 have big wing-loading so they are a bit tricky to land and take off. For the f-104 there was issues with the ejection seats but those were fixed with later versions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nscode Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 The fact that they had no jet trainer, and went from prop to MiG-21 could also have something to do with it. Never forget that World War III was not Cold for most of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 Some sources say that MiG-21 crashes were seriously reduced after the Bison upgrade. There also seems to be some speculation as to whether the dead pilot's parachute failed to open or he was hit by debris from the aircraft - not important in the long run I suppose :/ [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topol-m Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 Some sources say that MiG-21 crashes were seriously reduced after the Bison upgrade. There also seems to be some speculation as to whether the dead pilot's parachute failed to open or he was hit by debris from the aircraft - not important in the long run I suppose :/ So the last info is that he ejected and didn`t fall with the aircraft did he? [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 He ejected, but so far no solid info why he died. :( [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boberro Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 Sad news for me, I very like Su-30, cool fighter. Reminder: Fighter pilots make movies. Bomber pilots make... HISTORY! :D | Also to be remembered: FRENCH TANKS HAVE ONE GEAR FORWARD AND FIVE BACKWARD :D ಠ_ಠ ツ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilde Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 http://www.indianexpress.com/news/pilot-killed-in-first-iaf-sukhoi-crash-checks-ordered-on-fleet/453293/ They suspect a structural fault. The killed pilot was hit by debris apparently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedTiger Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 It's kinda sad how if we hear a US or Russian pilot was killed in the line of duty, we remain silent in a showing of respect. In this case an Indian pilot was killed and we get a thread on human error vs. mechanical failure. :noexpression: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mvsgas Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 Well Red Tiger, I do not believe that fair to the guys here. It is always sad when someone dies, from any country. It just , in my opinion, that most of us are aviation enthusiast and some time our conversations take us away from the subject. I don't believe is lack of respect, everyone life is equally important The weakest link is always the human. This is the first mki accident, so I guess that the Indians have very good safety record with their sukhois. About the mig-21 accidents, you got to consider that this airplane has been operating on a very difficult environment (lost of big birds, high temperatures, extreme humidity etc.) also there is an Indian Air-force report that says that the indian mig-21 are a more difficult to land due to the weight that it gained by the implementation of more equipment. for the f104 is almost the same history. The germans had lots of accidents but after they learned the peculiarities of the jet, the accident rates decreased. Both the mig and f104 have big wing-loading so they are a bit tricky to land and take off. For the f-104 there was issues with the ejection seats but those were fixed with later versions. I do not agree, many aircraft were and still are poorly designed and have many faults. The F-100 vertical tail was to small, F-104 engine was to prone to failure and the first ejection seats were downward ejection: very little survivor rate. B-58 had bad ejection seats. ME163 fuel was as dangerous to pilots as the enemy aircraft. F-14 had hydraulic problems, engines problems, at any rate machine can be blame in many crashes, in my opinion. Wilde: Reading the article, It appears to me that it could be the aircraft departed (flat spin) and the pilot was unable to recover it. It could be he black out. Could be flight control problems, hydraulic actuator could have broken or disconnected. At any rate, as always, very sad to hear about people dying, but thousands die every day, if not more, it is part of life. To whom it may concern, I am an idiot, unfortunately for the world, I have a internet connection and a fondness for beer....apologies for that. Thank you for you patience. Many people don't want the truth, they want constant reassurance that whatever misconception/fallacies they believe in are true.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monotwix Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 Meow there are people out there who undertake risky jobs to make the world tick and some of them die, it’s a natural cycle. Now the flankers fans would like to see their bird nice and sound, it’s only like AL-31F turbofans. I know the human being and fish can coexist peacefully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilde Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 Wilde: Reading the article, It appears to me that it could be the aircraft departed (flat spin) and the pilot was unable to recover it. It could be he black out. Could be flight control problems, hydraulic actuator could have broken or disconnected. I was only linking that news-item. I have no idea what happened really. Although I read somewhere else, that the other guy who survived was also injured severely. The man who was killed apparently succumbed in hospital or when he was transported there. Really sad story. :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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