Computer spec recommendation please.

[Lee1]

I've come to the point where my present computer is not performing well enough to run DCS with all the improvements made. For instance, it takes several seconds to roll the F16 through 90 degrees, the program keeps stopping for a couple of seconds to catch up, stutters along and most of all takes about ten minutes to load DCS and a similar time to load up whatever option I've chosen to ly.

I'm able to spend a fair bit of money to rectify this.  I want to be able to fly with all the sliders fullt to the right, ie maximum fidelity, but don't rteuire VR headset capable.

What are you guys using and what could you advise.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Rgds

 

Lee

[Nightdare]

I'd think most would advise 7800x3d, 64gb, 2tb NVME, with the highest GPU you can afford

I'd add the comforts of as many fast USB ports on the MB as possible to that and Wifi 6+

[Ala12Rv-Tundra]

5800x3d it 5700x3d are still decent options, with am4 system(motherboard + ddr4 ram) being cheaper than 78003xd system

[LucShep]

4 hours ago, Lee1 said:

I've come to the point where my present computer is not performing well enough to run DCS with all the improvements made. For instance, it takes several seconds to roll the F16 through 90 degrees, the program keeps stopping for a couple of seconds to catch up, stutters along and most of all takes about ten minutes to load DCS and a similar time to load up whatever option I've chosen to ly.

I'm able to spend a fair bit of money to rectify this.  I want to be able to fly with all the sliders fullt to the right, ie maximum fidelity, but don't rteuire VR headset capable.

What are you guys using and what could you advise.

Lee

If I understood correctly, you're not using VR.  If so, no need to buy the latest and greatest, though the most potent machine for your budget is obviously the best idea.

But we need more info to recommend or advise hardware...

1. What are your current system specs?
2. What is your total budget (rough estimation)?
3. What is your screen (native) resolution?
4. What DCS modules+maps you intend to use?
5. Are you computer savvy, i.e, will you be building the system yourself? 

Edited July 15, 2024 by LucShep

[Blackhawk163]

My specs are in the signature.

 

Super Smooth (singleplayer) action usually in the 100-115 (locked at that as my TV is only 120hz) FPS. With all settings to their highest slider/option except for chimney and preload radius. Current resolution is 5461x2880 with DLSS on and DLA with DSR factors set at 1.78 and smoothness to 0. That gives me a sharper image.

[Lee1]

59 minutes ago, LucShep said:

If I understood correctly, you're not using VR.  If so, no need to buy the latest and greatest, though the most potent machine for your budget is obviously the best idea.

But we need more info to recommend or advise hardware...

1. What are your current system specs?
2. What is your total budget (rough estimation)?
3. What is your screen (native) resolution?
4. What DCS modules+maps you intend to use?
5. Are you computer savvy, i.e, will you be building the system yourself? 

 

Thanks for the reply

Current system not relevant, mI'm looking for a new one but  Intel I7 @3.4Ghz, DDR3 24Gb RAM, Gigabyte Z68XP-UD3P Board,NVIDIA GTX 1070.  As I said, old and creaking.

Budget no more than five thousand pounds

Currently 3440 x 1440 but monitor can go higher, limited by current system

Persian Gulf, Syria, Afghanistan, Kola Peninsula, Caucasus, NTTR, also have Marianas and South Atlantic but not currently installed

Not building myself, a local guy is doing so and I have had his products before, top notch.

 

Thanks again for your interest and help.

 

Edited July 15, 2024 by Lee1

[Blackhawk163]

12 minutes ago, Lee1 said:

Thanks for the reply

Current system not relevant, mI'm looking for a new one but  Intel I7 @3.4Ghz, DDR3 24Gb RAM, Gigabyte Z68XP-UD3P Board,NVIDIA GTX 1070.  As I said, old and creaking.

Budget no more than five thousand pounds

Currently 3440 x 1440 but monitor can go higher, limited by current system

Persian Gulf, Syria, Afghanistan, Kola Peninsula, Caucasus, NTTR, also have Marianas and South Atlantic but not currently installed

 

Thanks again for your interest and help.

 

How long can you wait it out? AMD is about to launch some new chips as is Nvidia. I'm sure you can more build an excellent cracker of a machine for five thousand quid. Especially if you wait it out a little.

[Lee1]

2 minutes ago, Blackhawk163 said:

How long can you wait it out? AMD is about to launch some new chips as is Nvidia. I'm sure you can more build an excellent cracker of a machine for five thousand quid. Especially if you wait it out a little.

Need it quicklt, DCS is now unplayable.

Thanks

 

[Blackhawk163]

Just now, Lee1 said:

Need it quicklt, DCS is now unplayable.

Thanks

 

Gotcha. Well, I think my system runs it great, I was thinking about going up to the 4090 to squeak out some more FPS for no other reason than just because. I'm also at 4tb of M2 ssd pcie gen 4 with my storage. You should be more than happy with that, and it should cost you less than half of your max so that you can eventually go VR if you choose to.

My motherboard is an MSI b650 Tomahawk, but I think if it were available I would've sprung for the ASRock B650E Taichi Lite. That's all going on the assumption that you are open to AMD chipsets vs Intel.

 

The AMD 7800x3d really is the king of gaming processors at the moment with it's excellent 96mb of L3 3d v-cache

 

[LucShep]

7 hours ago, Lee1 said:

Thanks for the reply

Current system not relevant, mI'm looking for a new one but  Intel I7 @3.4Ghz, DDR3 24Gb RAM, Gigabyte Z68XP-UD3P Board,NVIDIA GTX 1070.  As I said, old and creaking.

Budget no more than five thousand pounds

Currently 3440 x 1440 but monitor can go higher, limited by current system

Persian Gulf, Syria, Afghanistan, Kola Peninsula, Caucasus, NTTR, also have Marianas and South Atlantic but not currently installed

Not building myself, a local guy is doing so and I have had his products before, top notch.

 

Thanks again for your interest and help.

I don't work for them nor do I want to advertise for them, but...  SCAN.UK can build and deliver it for you.
Which is also a good idea, because they then have to ensure everything is working and also provide assistance, besides the mandatory warranty on everything. 

But if you trust your local guy, then nothing wrong in it. Show him the following system, and see if he can do something equivalent to this:

Custom PC with AMD Ryzen 7800X3D / 64GB DDR5 / NVIDIA RTX 4090 - 3XS (scan.co.uk)

Within SCAN's selection of parts (which has limits), I've configured that to a combination that is all around top performance, and still below your max budget.
But it can be reconfigured (again, within their parts list) if you prefer a different GPU, or Motherboard, or NVMEs, or PSU, etc, etc. 

As you can see from that link, that custom system is currently composed like this:

PC case:  Fractal Design Torrent [Black with Light Tint] 
Motherboard:  ASUS ROG STRIX B650E-F GAMING WIFI
CPU:  AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D
CPU Cooler:  Noctua NH-U12A Chromax Black
RAM (DDR5):  64GB (2x32GB) Corsair Dominator Titanium RGB 6000MHz [Grey]
GPU:  ASUS GeForce RTX 4090 24GB TUF GAMING OG OC
PSU:  Corsair HX1500i, Modular, Silent, 80PLUS PLATINUM (ATX3.0 Certified)
NVME storage #1:  2TB Solidigm P44 Pro NVMe PCIe 4.0, 7000MB/s Read, 6500MB/s Write, 1400K IOPS  (for system, apps, dloads and docs)
NVME storage #2:  2TB Solidigm P44 Pro NVMe PCIe 4.0, 7000MB/s Read, 6500MB/s Write, 1400K IOPS  (for DCS and other sims/games)
O.S.:  Microsoft Windows 11 Pro 64-Bit

TOTAL:  £3,844.33
 

Edited July 16, 2024 by LucShep
updated system build and respective link

[Aapje]

@Lee1

I wouldn't suggest waiting for the next AMD CPUs. You can get a very good deal on the 7800X3D right now and the new CPUs will almost certainly start with inflated prices. The difference is not going to be that big. There are major issues with the Intel processors, so steer clear of those.

I'd sooner wait for the new GPUs, although they don't seem to be around the corner and might take until early 2025 to arrive. But I wouldn't suggest getting a 4090 right now, since you are almost certainly going to experience huge deprecation once the 5090s hit the market. And without VR, I don't see the huge need anyway.

A 4080 Super is a very strong card and is much better value for money.

I'd also suggest getting 64 GB of RAM and lots of storage.

[Blackhawk163]

That Noctua 

2 hours ago, Aapje said:

@Lee1

I wouldn't suggest waiting for the next AMD CPUs. You can get a very good deal on the 7800X3D right now and the new CPUs will almost certainly start with inflated prices. The difference is not going to be that big. There are major issues with the Intel processors, so steer clear of those.

I'd sooner wait for the new GPUs, although they don't seem to be around the corner and might take until early 2025 to arrive. But I wouldn't suggest getting a 4090 right now, since you are almost certainly going to experience huge deprecation once the 5090s hit the market. And without VR, I don't see the huge need anyway.

A 4080 Super is a very strong card and is much better value for money.

I'd also suggest getting 64 GB of RAM and lots of storage.

Great points on the waiting game on this one, especially since some of the performance hints that AMD are giving are contradictory at the moment with regards to the performance enhancements of the upcoming chips. 
 

As for that noctua fan. Oof at that price. Pushing right up to AIO prices, the 7800x3d isn’t a hot chip and so I stuck with the peerless assassin. It’s a little louder but only if your pc is sitting on the desk and my head is near it. Regardless I’m not hearing any cooling fan as all I’m hearing is either rwr/radar/radio chatter, or engine,and in my case specifically, rotor blades beating the air into submission. 

[Aapje]

Yeah, Noctua is very good, but not value for money. The Peerless Assassin is. And there is no need for an AIO with a 7800X3D. As for water cooling, it has a lot of downsides, including more risks and less durability.

[LucShep]

@Blackhawk163 and @Aapje The suggested build I posted from SCAN.UK is somewhat restricted in variety of parts to choose, to what they list in the configurator.

For example, the Thermaltake Phantom Spirit SE (or Peerless Assassin SE) are mostly sold on Amazon. There isn't any other equivalent price/performance part in SCAN.UK or OcUK (and others), and why the Noctua NH-U12A was chosen, also because of compatibility with the Corsair Dominator Ti RAM (another thing where variety is limited). 

If I could, other equivalent components would have been listed instead (such as other air cooler, pc case, PSU, lower profile RAM, and own source Windows installation and key).

But, that said, the components they list are very good (no complaints there). It's just that those are more expensive than other possible equivalents in the market.
Yes it's expensive, but that system is a mighty good one for sure, and includes all the service commodities for people who are not building their own systems, within the UK.

I agree that the RTX4090 might be too much, as is the 1500W PSU to go with it. But it's all under the OP's budget, and doesn't look to me like someone who upgrades often...

If the intention is to get a top gaming system like that specific custom one from SCAN.UK, but price needs to go down a bit and/or there's less need for "extreme horsepower", the only things I'd change are the graphics card to the RTX4080 Super 16GB (Asus TUF listed only) and the PSU to the Corsair HX1000i (again, from their configurator choices). 

 

Edited July 16, 2024 by LucShep
spelling(?)

[Aapje]

He has a local guy building it for him, so presumably he is free to select the parts that he wants. And I see no need to spend lots more just because one is willing to spend. Perhaps if we save him some money, he can upgrade again sooner. Or he might want to upgrade his controls (FFB?).

Note that the 4090 is not just a big financial spend, but going from a 150 Watt TDP to 450 for the video card also has quality of life downsides. The 4080 Super heat output will be less of a shock and it can be brought down a lot more, to levels that many people consider more comfortable, with a nice undervolt.

And I disagree with a 1500 W power supply. That is just way overkill and is going to put him further from the peak of the efficiency curve. Max 1000 Watt is fine, especially with a 7800X3D.

Edited July 17, 2024 by Aapje

[Brun]

On 7/17/2024 at 1:15 AM, Aapje said:

And I disagree with a 1500 W power supply. That is just way overkill and is going to put him further from the peak of the efficiency curve. Max 1000 Watt is fine, especially with a 7800X3D.

100% this.

850W has been perfectly fine for the system in my sig, and that doesn't include 2x NVMe, 3x SATA SSD, watercooling pump and a whole bunch of USB devices running directly off it.

Edited July 19, 2024 by Brun

[kksnowbear]

An 850W PSU is NOT adequate for all 4090s.  All 4090s are not the same, and it also depends on the exact PSU as well.

4090s have been documented to experience excursions of 700W (just the GPU) - and that's something that most people don't have the necessary test equipment (by far) to accurately measure.  The plug-in 'Kill A Watt' type meters are nowhere near fast or sensitive enough to catch the excursions, nor is the display on a UPS (or it's software, which uses the same data source, of course).  Relying on those devices as a basis for saying 850W is enough for a 4090 is just misleading, for obvious reasons.

It's like someone using a scale that only weighs up to 300 pounds, when they're 310 and trying to see if their diet is working:  The measuring device just isn't up to the task.

Factually, I've tested 5 different "name brand" power supplies with my 4090 for this very reason.  *All* of these were decent quality units, all 80 Plus Gold, and all rated for continuous output (as any good PSU is) at the 4090 manufacturer's recommended 850 watts.  (In case you missed that: My 4090 is only recommended for an 850W PSU by Asus, it's actually not even one that they recommend 1000W for, which would obviously be even more demanding of the PSU).

Two of the five restarted the machine when loaded during testing, and according to the stupid "Kill A Watt" type meter, the entire machine was drawing less than 700W - which should be well within the continuous output rating for all 5 units.

And the same two PSUs that failed with the 4090s are also proven to handle not one but *two* 1080Ti GPUs in a system that the Kill A Watt indicates was actually drawing more power than the 4090 system was.   (Two 1080Tis factually are rated for 500W TDP, where a single 4090 is 450W).

This proves that these two PSUs are plenty capable of the rated load for the 4090, but they couldn't handle the excursions, which again are documented to occur in 4090s.

And before it comes up:  Yes, the 4090 test was on an AM5 system - a 7800X3D to be exact.  So it's also not true to say these CPUs use little enough power that an 850 is OK. Two of the five PSUs I tested say otherwise.

I can say with absolute certainty that not all 850W PSUs (even brand name higher end units) will power all 4090s.  It depends on the exact card and the exact PSU.

This has come up before.  Just because *any* (single) system, with a specific model of 4090 in that particular system, seems to run OK with the specific model 850W PSU in that system...does not equate to "an 850W PSU is enough for a 4090".  That's an over-generalization that will lead to problems in some cases - exactly as my testing proves (and is echoed elsewhere as well).

The problem is all these 'experts' dispensing blanket advice that an 850 is enough aren't considering the range of possibilities between different PSU models and different 4090 models.  In fact, manufacturers recommend 1000W for some 4090 models while recommending 850 for others - clearly showing they understand the difference is the GPU model itself, regardless of the rest of the system.

It simply depends on a lot of factors and it's just wrong to say an 850W PSU is adequate for a 4090 in every instance.

You should either use a 1000W PSU, or one of the newer units rated for excursions of 3x the rated wattage (ATX 3.0).

Edited July 19, 2024 by kksnowbear

[Brun]

The post I was agreeing with suggested 1000W.

Nowhere did I claim anything like "an 850W PSU is adequate for a 4090 in every instance". I simply stated my anecdotal experience.

Recommending a 1500W PSU is still ridiculous.

 

[kksnowbear]

On 7/19/2024 at 9:36 AM, Brun said:

Nowhere did I claim anything like "an 850W PSU is adequate for a 4090 in every instance".

Nor did I say you did.

Simply saying it has come up, and that it's a misleading generalization based on bad data.

FWIW I don't necessarily disagree concerning a 1500W unit. That said, however, I would also say there are other considerations that might suggest a 1500W unit is not 'ridiculous', even if it is overkill.  Things like budget, availability in a given location...even sale prices; any/all these might make a 1500W unit a reasonable choice. Also, people tend to keep PSUs through multiple builds, and future upgrade(s) might make a 1500 less likely to need replacing next time.

I don't think a 1000W unit should be represented as max for a 4090, I think it should be minimum (again, generally and depending on circumstances).  I think max can only be determined by considering other, non-technical factors like cost, budget, and so on.  Of course, "max" will ultimately be determined by the type electrical circuit available, and in the US at least, 1500W is pretty much max for output of a computer PSU, for many typical homes (there are exceptions).

And, to be completely accurate, in a proper setup (i.e. with a UPS), a 1500W PSU is actually excessive - again, with some rare exceptions, and in the USA.  But not for the reasons you might think.  TBH the equation from my perspective is not limited to strictly the size of the PSU.  The power protection that's required (again, on a 15A breaker) is part of the equation as well.

I see a lot of people saying they have 1000-1500W PSUs on a 1500VA UPS (which, unfortunately, is also usually misguided). The *real* problem with power supplies over 1000W is that proper electrical protection can be difficult to find, and is considerably more expensive (again, in the US).

The only thing that's less intelligent than running an overloaded UPS is not having any power protection at all...

But that's another subject.

Edited July 23, 2024 by kksnowbear

[TKhaos]

Power Supplies

Personally I would suggest a 1000w PSU, while some 4090’s are fine with 850w the one’s that are factory overclocked require a 1000w supply. Also you need to consider the 12v rail and it’s amperage, also it’s better to get single rail rather than dual or multiple rail.

I would personally recommend a Corsair RM1000x, it’s a fully modular 80+ Gold standard with 83.3 A on the 12v rail.

Alternatively, a little bit more expensive you got the Corsair Hxi 1000w 80+ Platinum ATX 3.0 fully modular PCIE5 power supply.

Both PSU’s come with a 10 year warranty.

Graphics Cards

That’s being said about the 4090’s personally I wouldn’t bother, I have found many of the AMD GPU’s to be better. I used Nvidia for over 25 years but switched to AMD and not looked back. I do extensive research into cards and benchmarking before buying anything. AMD gives more value for money.

Personally I’ve found the RX 7900 XTX to be a good card and it’s literally half the price of the RTX 4090. If you want to go for Nvidia and nothing else I would suggest the RTX 4080, again half the price of the RTX 4090 so around the same as the AMD card.

RTX 4090’s are known to encounter CPU bottlenecks running them at 1440p, even more so at 1080p so would really need to be running 4k.

Don’t believe all you read either, my spare system which I use for work stuff now has a Ryzen 7 5700x in it with a AMD RX 6650 XT and benchmarked faster than a lot of much higher end systems with everything set at factory.

CPU

Personally again, I started with Intel back in the 80’s, switched to AMD late 80’s and wasn’t that impressed so switched back to Intel. I switched back to AMD maybe 10 years ago because Intel change sockets more often than most people change their underwear and I was getting sick of every time I needed or wanted a new CPU I would have to replace the motherboard as well. I had an i5 years ago, only two years old and fried but then socket had already moved up a couple of stages by then so no updated i5 would work in it and it was near impossible to buy the earlier models.

Rarely get that problem with AMD, in fact my new motherboard from a system I build last year supports every Ryzen 5, 7 and 9 there is. You can get some really good deals on AM4 boards at the moment or as it’s a new build you could build an AM5 system, although AM5 CPU’s, AM5 boards and DDR5 memory are a lot more expensive.

The CPU I would highly recommend for a AM4 build would be a AMD 7 7800X3D or AMD Ryzen 9 7900X3D, both of which beat the Intel i9-14900K, Intel i7-14700K and Intel i9-13900K in benchmarks.

If you go for a AM5 system one of the best CPU’s is the AMD Ryzen 7 7700X or the AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D, a lot of the 7 series are faster than the 9 series and cheaper.

If you wanted to go for a 9 series the AMD Ryzen 9 7900X and AMD Ryzen 9 7900X3D are around the same price but personally I would stick to 7 series.

If you wanted to go the Intel route then Intel i9-14900K and Intel i7-14700K are decent choices but like GPU’s a lot more expensive than the AMD equivalent.

Motherboards

Personal choice really depending on what you want and need, for years Gigabyte was top quality but in recent years there has been quality control issues, the same with Asus boards.

Despite some people not liking them MSI make some decent boards, I’ve been using them for 40ish years and never had a problem with them, the X570 board in my spare system is around 7 years old and still working fine.

If you go for an AM4 build I can highly recommend the MSI MAG B550 Tomahawk board, a lot of the features on it are normally only found on the X570 chipset boards.

For AM5 builds the MSI B650 and MSI X670 boards are good. But like I say it’s personal choice, some people don’t like MSI and will recommend others.

CPU Coolers

Personally I’ve used Corsair, Coolermaster, Antec over the years and never had an issue but my go to cooler these days is Noctua. I actually use the Noctua NH-U12S REDUX cooler, it’s the cheaper version of the NH-U12S but moves twice as much air, plus you can fit a second fan to most of them.

Memory

Again this depends, I’ve never had any issues with G.Skill, Kingston, Crucial or Corsair memory and price will depend on the build, so either be DDR4 or DDR5.

I would recommend at least 32GB of ram, currently DCS on mine uses about 30GB but it’s nice to have that little bit extra if you can stretch to 64GB.

Storage

SSD is a definite requirement. If you are going to SSD I highly recommend the Samsung 870 EVO SSD to use as a base drive for OS and normal use, it’s fast enough to run DCS off as well and you can get sizes up to 8TB.

My recommendation would be something like a Samsung 870 EVO as the main drive then install a Samsung 990 PRO 2TB M.2 PCIe 4.0 NVMe to run DCS off of like I have.

Depending on what board you buy, if it supports PCIe 5.0 Samsung do a 990 EVO although it’s read/write aren’t as fast as the PCIe 4.0 990 PRO.

Cases

I highly recommend Antec cases, I’ve still got a gaming one from 2007 going strong, that's used for my backup system I currently use a Antec DF700.

Edited July 19, 2024 by TKhaos